The Elderly and Retired; Thoughts from Final Notice

Use this forum to discuss the March 2018 Book of the Month, "Final Notice" by Van Fleisher.
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Re: The Elderly and Retired; Thoughts from Final Notice

Post by Helen_Combe »

I can only think that this trend of not respecting the elderly has come about through frustration with life in general and cowardice making people bully the those who can’t defend themselves. I’ve also noticed a change in patenting. When I was a child, if I was rude to someone, they would march me home to my parents and tell them what I did, my parents would then apologise and I would be banished to my room. Try that nowadays and you’ll likely be attacked by the parents, reinforcing the child’s opinion that they were in the right to behave as they did.
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Post by Cristina Chifane »

We will all grow old one day. It may be a truism, but I think it is important for us to remember this from time to time. For example, I can totally understand Vince's insecurity and need to react in some way when he becomes a target for bullying. Things get only worse when it comes to women. They are even more exposed to bullying and things are indeed deplorable in many other less developed countries than America. What could be done about it? Perhaps writing about it and raising people's awareness is a first step in the right direction.
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Post by n-dai che »

Helen_Combe wrote: 31 Mar 2018, 03:31 I can only think that this trend of not respecting the elderly has come about through frustration with life in general and cowardice making people bully the those who can’t defend themselves. I’ve also noticed a change in patenting. When I was a child, if I was rude to someone, they would march me home to my parents and tell them what I did, my parents would then apologise and I would be banished to my room. Try that nowadays and you’ll likely be attacked by the parents, reinforcing the child’s opinion that they were in the right to behave as they did.
I can relate to you. I cousins were rude to their grandparents. Early in the morning we hear them yelling to the elderly.(though not my grandma because we just cousins in my mother-side) I saw the elderly couple cried and wanted to stay in the retirement house. My cousins' parent did not do anything to halt them. :(
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Post by n-dai che »

cristinaro wrote: 01 Apr 2018, 00:39 We will all grow old one day. It may be a truism, but I think it is important for us to remember this from time to time. For example, I can totally understand Vince's insecurity and need to react in some way when he becomes a target for bullying. Things get only worse when it comes to women. They are even more exposed to bullying and things are indeed deplorable in many other less developed countries than America. What could be done about it? Perhaps writing about it and raising people's awareness is a first step in the right direction.
This scene makes me remember of my cousin's grandparent. They are being bullied when they walk slowly and too, take a long time for taking a bath. So sad!
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Post by Sahani Nimandra »

There is two sides to every story. One could be due to the lack of morality within the younger generation the other is because of the limitations the elders are subjected to which to make them frustrated. No one likes to be side lined. We are all humans, we all ask for our rights despite our ability.
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Post by KFree_Reads »

Wow I must say I am very appreciative of this book. The elderly are without a doubt discriminated against.In our youth, sometimes we very rarely think of the elderly or our own impending years of senescence. The truth is we usually equate our aging years with an imminent date with death. I really appreciate that the book makes us stop and think about our daily interaction with the elderly and see things from their side.
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Post by zilizopita1998 »

This book reflects the prevailing situation in our society today where the aging segment of society is not very much flexible to the emerging trends.
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Post by [Valerie Allen] »

As I read on, I certainly believe that the elderly like Vince are threatened and feel threatened, because it's as you stated, they are perceived as the weaker vessels, which indicate that they are vulnerable in the eyes of the perpetrators. Not to mention, "the devil simply prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour".
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Post by Elle Howard »

I thought the book did a good job in portraying how we treat the elderly in this country. Everything is fast past and tempers flare when someone slows the pace down. I have seen professionally dressed people reduced to ignorance in a grocery store because an elderly person is having problems scanning their debit card.
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Post by Amystl26 »

kfwilson6 wrote: 02 Mar 2018, 10:31 I absolutely believe that Fleisher depicted society's views on senior citizens quite accurately. Kindhearted people with good morals and values will not push a 70 year old man aside in the store but even the most patient of us find ourselves thinking "why are you walking so slow", "can't you drive any faster", "this isn't that difficult, why don't you understand". If I break my leg and walk around the grocery store on crutches, people will probably have pity and make accommodations. They will not be walking behind me thinking "gosh I wish this lady would hobble a little faster" (typically, and this is just my assumption). It is truly sad that people become so frustrated and outdone with elderly people who cannot help the physical changes they must endure.

On the other side of that coin, frustration, like what Stan's father experienced, can simply come from those physical changes and not from societal views. If you used to run 5 miles every morning and now can't even walk up a flight of stairs, you would likely find yourself frustrated by your own limitations. Not everyone can take this in stride.

Very thought provoking topic that Fleisher presents and you chose to discuss. Hopefully this book will help to make readers more sensitive to the burdens that elderly people are challenged with.

Also-yes I would say that elderly people are viewed as "weaker". They are probably the main target of internet scams. Although this is a reference to mental rather than physical weakness, it is still a concern and puts them on a similar level with children in terms of their naiveté.

I agree, the elderly are viewed as weaker. I use to work as a nurse and watching some of the CPAs with the elderly was horrifying and heartbreaking. I feel for elderly people today-- they are not shown the respect they deserve. And sadly, the younger generation (some, not all!) Are showing less and less patience.
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Post by jvez »

I think it still depends on a particular culture. In my place, elders are considered powerful. Their opinions are never to be sidelined. They are also allowed to do what they want. If they wish to work it's good; if they wish to stay at home, it's fine. Yes, they are considered weak physically. This is why younger relatives are expected to aid their elders all the time. Some of the younger ones tend to get annoyed with this culture, but I think majority follow this practice.

But then again, a few miles away from our place, elders are being abandoned in home care institutions. There are even some abandoned on the streets. I think this is similar to the situation portrayed in the book, but I don't think this is the case everywhere in the world.

This ultimately depends on how and where children are raised. If respecting elders is a value already instilled in them early on, and this value is also evident in the community, then I think the child will grow up knowing how to care for his elders.
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Post by cianarae »

I think one reason that elderly people are sidelined in US culture is because they have very little representation in the media. Most TV shows, movies, and books are about people who are middle-aged. I think that can send the message that elderly people should not be in the public eye or should disappear. When they are depicted, they often aren't depicted as full human beings. For example, they are rarely depicted as having a sexuality.

I believe that if we could do a better job of representing older people in the media in the US, a lot of perceptions of them as being "useless" would change.
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Post by CaitlynLynch »

Ageism is often not recognised as the awful discrimination it really is, being overlooked by the 'bigger' issues of racism, homophobia, misogyny etc. Along with ableism (discrimination towards those with disabilities) it's something I wish people were more aware of when they consider their thoughts and actions towards others.

Sadly, some people are always going to be assholes to those they perceive as lesser and weaker. Compassion is the best thing we can teach our children to make the world a better place.
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Post by kalebi »

As a sixty six year old lady I found the book intriguing but can see right away that respect for the elderly is very low in America. However, unlike in Kenya the elderly can stay in homes and this brings about depression because young people cannot easily interact with immediate members of the family.

On the other hand the book is very easy to read, the plot insightful, and grammar and punctuation well attended. I can relate to the circumstances but killing and committing suicide not my cup of tea. A very good read.
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Post by Sefiros2211 »

It's because people perceive themselves as immortals. They have to. They must selfishly believe that bad things happen to other people. If they truly see themselves as vulnerable, that they're the same as everybody else, no one would get out of bed. We reject fear to live without it.

The elderly live with that. They may not say it, but they think of it. Anyone can be Vince Fuller. They get knocked down by a terrifying, intimidating and overwhelming presence, and something precious is robbed from them. Their sense of identity. Their peace of mind. Some seek violence because violence has been done to them -- it's a physical solution, a reaction, a justification. Big strong man knocked me down like a cockroach? Let's see how tough he is with a Colt .45 in his face.

I'm not saying gun violence is justifiable. I'm saying its a channel from which some people are using to escape that feeling of worthlessness. When they choose that channel, the rewards for re-establishing who's on the top of the pyramid is fleeting. The rush of superiority does not last. And for what? Hurting someone? Killing someone? What would you do to get that confidence back?

Almost anything.

The elderly may be our grandparents, but they're still human. They still make mistakes. Relying on a gun is a pretty big one. Just saying.
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