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Thokchom Alice wrote: ↑23 Oct 2018, 20:01 Did Hiram actually feel the pain of guilt? Did he repent?

It is a very good question. While I was reading this book an allusion to classical Greek tragedies came to my mind. A tragedy happens and the character involved takes to the open road. By the end of his journey, he undergoes a deep transformation and becomes a wise, kind and compassionate person. In this sort of transformation, i.e. metanoia, the person involved feels guilt and repentance that he overly admits and often refers to. I do not think 20th- 21st-century modern people are able to feel such profound guilt and repentance, however, some sort of guilt and repentance must be present in the process of maturing to become a better person.
Indeed, the novel does not show us whether McDowell feels pain and repentance or not. Probably there are certain events he regrets to have happened and probably he feels repentance, even guilt, over such events. Otherwise, he would have been an inhumane monster who is unable to change for the better. Fortunately, our McDowell has grown to a better man by the end of the story.

I don’t think he felt guilt. I think he had remorse only after he was caught but even then I don’t think he felt guilty about anything he had done. He seemed to rationalize and explain all of his decisions to himself and his family and even in his memoir

I think he did not exactly felt repentence; he always felt he was wronged and he deserved better, the thing he felt was loneliness and being left alone by everyone; he must have done something to deserve that, but unfortunately he was not realising it.

I think till the very end, although he changed and everything but he never felt guilt, because he never admitted himself to be wrong, according to him he was always right and considerate and thoughtful and only people around him were evil. To feel guilt there has to be some kind of acceptance in the wrongdoing but he never accepted it.

I believe Hiram began feeling guilt and pain in part two of this book. However, I also believe he was in the beginning stages of the process and was never able to work through it all before the end.

Think he didn't felt guilty nor did he repented. He just started to act and react differently. He stopped hurting others but didn't give his previuos acts a second thought.

No, i don't think he ever did. This is why I think the book fell just a little short to be amazing for me. I wanted that full redemption and McDowell never realized it. He was still egotistical and thinking the world owed him an apology even at the end of the book.

I don't think Hiram ever felt guilt and the associated pain and sorrow. But we can say he was able to identify some of his faults and try to remedy them in the latter part of the book while he initially only thought to show everyone else his correctness and how he was unjustly blamed. Since he was a practical person and not a very emotional one, he may have thought that feeling guilty might be useless and repented in his own way.

Radiant3 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2018, 23:39 I don't think Hiram felt guilt for what he did. Perhaps, in time would he have eventually grown into the person who would have felt guilt and repentance.

I agree, if he had more time, then he would have had guilt. Assuming he continued to be a better person and did not relapse into his self-pitying, arrogant, bitter, old self. LOL
I wish he would have shown even a little while on the run. He rarely talked or reflected on or showed empathy towards his family or children and was still quite self-absorbed in the whole process. I don't know if that was just to be expected or not.

KDJ wrote: ↑10 Apr 2019, 15:21

Radiant3 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2018, 23:39 I don't think Hiram felt guilt for what he did. Perhaps, in time would he have eventually grown into the person who would have felt guilt and repentance.

I agree, if he had more time, then he would have had guilt. Assuming he continued to be a better person and did not relapse into his self-pitying, arrogant, bitter, old self. LOL
I wish he would have shown even a little while on the run. He rarely talked or reflected on or showed empathy towards his family or children and was still quite self-absorbed in the whole process. I don't know if that was just to be expected or not.

Perhaps, he might have relapsed if his circumstances were as before, but I think he was actually becoming a kinder more empathetic person. Maybe he had to go through a process of difficulties before his self absorption could weaken.

Radiant3 wrote: ↑10 Apr 2019, 20:40

KDJ wrote: ↑10 Apr 2019, 15:21

Radiant3 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2018, 23:39 I don't think Hiram felt guilt for what he did. Perhaps, in time would he have eventually grown into the person who would have felt guilt and repentance.

I agree, if he had more time, then he would have had guilt. Assuming he continued to be a better person and did not relapse into his self-pitying, arrogant, bitter, old self. LOL
I wish he would have shown even a little while on the run. He rarely talked or reflected on or showed empathy towards his family or children and was still quite self-absorbed in the whole process. I don't know if that was just to be expected or not.

Perhaps, he might have relapsed if his circumstances were as before, but I think he was actually becoming a kinder more empathetic person. Maybe he had to go through a process of difficulties before his self absorption could weaken.

If the book didn't end the way it did, do you think he would have also incorporated amends to his family?
The way he treated Carol and Tasha really 'got my goat'. ( I don't know if I used that right.) Would he have just started living his life better from that point on, or would he have tried to mend the rift in his family? I wasn't very empathetic towards him, even after he tried to be a better person. That's why I think it is more than possible he would have relapsed or twisted what he learned into something absurd.

KDJ wrote: ↑12 Apr 2019, 16:06

Radiant3 wrote: ↑10 Apr 2019, 20:40

KDJ wrote: ↑10 Apr 2019, 15:21

I agree, if he had more time, then he would have had guilt. Assuming he continued to be a better person and did not relapse into his self-pitying, arrogant, bitter, old self. LOL
I wish he would have shown even a little while on the run. He rarely talked or reflected on or showed empathy towards his family or children and was still quite self-absorbed in the whole process. I don't know if that was just to be expected or not.

Perhaps, he might have relapsed if his circumstances were as before, but I think he was actually becoming a kinder more empathetic person. Maybe he had to go through a process of difficulties before his self absorption could weaken.

If the book didn't end the way it did, do you think he would have also incorporated amends to his family?
The way he treated Carol and Tasha really 'got my goat'. ( I don't know if I used that right.) Would he have just started living his life better from that point on, or would he have tried to mend the rift in his family? I wasn't very empathetic towards him, even after he tried to be a better person. That's why I think it is more than possible he would have relapsed or twisted what he learned into something absurd.

For most of the story, his main concern was about himself and what he wanted. I felt his treatment of Carol and Tasha, cold as it was, just reflected who he was at the time, pretty self-centered. What I really liked about this story is that it brought up the question of whether it's possible for a person to really change and stay changed. He wasn't a very likeable character, but I think he was genuinely changing and becoming a better person. Yes, I think he would have tried to make amends to his family.

I don't think he felt guilt but I think at the end he recognised that his actions and thoughts weren't always correct. Maybe he would have eventually felt grief but he didn't seem to get quite get there

I don't think he quite got to the point of feeling guilty and repenting. I think he could have gotten there eventually but died beforehand.

At first Hiram seemed to feel no guilt. He blamed others for this fault and wanted everyone to understand things his way. After his contact with Maud he turned out to be a different person who may have felt guilty for his sins. I cant really say if he repented before his death.