I feel the same way. I think the concoction has actual chemical effects, but that alone might not be enough. He is a special person who believed he could have a spiritual experience, and so he did.Drmplant wrote: ↑17 Mar 2019, 18:59 I believe the plant concoction is a strong hallucinogenic. I believe that he saw what he was concentrating on prior to taking it. I don't think it was a placebo effect, I believe he was truly high. I just think it was more of a self fulfilling prophecy. He believed he would so he did.
What's you opinion on the experience of ingesting of a plant concoction in the Amazon?
- mmm17
- Posts: 826
- Joined: 23 Dec 2018, 09:24
- Currently Reading:
- Bookshelf Size: 262
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-mmm17.html
- Latest Review: Broke Open by Lela Becker
Re: What's you opinion on the experience of ingesting of a plant concoction in the Amazon?
- Enigma44
- Posts: 11
- Joined: 05 Feb 2019, 06:35
- Currently Reading:
- Bookshelf Size: 47
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-enigma44.html
- Latest Review: The Unbound Soul by Richard L. Haight
To me, it is a combination of things. If I understand correctly, to you visions and insights, facilitated by external substances once consumed, are not “legitimate” spiritual experiences? In most religions, prophets/saints/holy figures reach such altered states of mind after exhaustion, starvation, meditation, prayer, some sort of lost, deprivation or alteration. To me, these are similar and as legitimate as taking a substance to aid the process. You do not see it this way?mmm17 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2019, 17:44Great comments. I do believe that almost anything can have a placebo effect. But some substances have actual major observable effects on the nervous system, which seems to be the case. Anyhow, the question for me is how much of a vision is merely drug induced hallucination, how much is true spiritual experience. And is there a difference?Enigma44 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2019, 04:21What great questions! From my reading of Haight’s account, he was part of an ayahuasca ceremony. It is an extremely individual experience. Taking the herbal concoction is just one part of the whole ceremony - the main goal is cleansing of the body and spirit (or whatever you want to call it). Drinking the yage (as it is also known) makes you vomit uncontrollably, and possibly gives you diarrhea. It is not a pleasant physical experience. It also could have hallucinating effects (but not necessary). The drink could have contributed to any extent to his whole experience. Does not everything have a placebo effect?
- Lana Shea
- Posts: 179
- Joined: 22 Oct 2017, 20:30
- Currently Reading: Cynthia and Dan
- Bookshelf Size: 51
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-lana-shea.html
- Latest Review: The End-Time Foretellers by Ran Weber
- mmm17
- Posts: 826
- Joined: 23 Dec 2018, 09:24
- Currently Reading:
- Bookshelf Size: 262
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-mmm17.html
- Latest Review: Broke Open by Lela Becker
Thank you for your comments! I totally agree with you that it is likely a combination of things. Moreover, I believe that altered states of consciousness probably only bring out aspects already present in someone's psyche. But I must admit I tend to value "naturally" achieved altered states of mind - by meditation or prayer, for example - over substance-induced ones. I don't really know why, though.Enigma44 wrote: ↑29 Mar 2019, 02:42To me, it is a combination of things. If I understand correctly, to you visions and insights, facilitated by external substances once consumed, are not “legitimate” spiritual experiences? In most religions, prophets/saints/holy figures reach such altered states of mind after exhaustion, starvation, meditation, prayer, some sort of lost, deprivation or alteration. To me, these are similar and as legitimate as taking a substance to aid the process. You do not see it this way?mmm17 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2019, 17:44Great comments. I do believe that almost anything can have a placebo effect. But some substances have actual major observable effects on the nervous system, which seems to be the case. Anyhow, the question for me is how much of a vision is merely drug induced hallucination, how much is true spiritual experience. And is there a difference?Enigma44 wrote: ↑25 Mar 2019, 04:21
What great questions! From my reading of Haight’s account, he was part of an ayahuasca ceremony. It is an extremely individual experience. Taking the herbal concoction is just one part of the whole ceremony - the main goal is cleansing of the body and spirit (or whatever you want to call it). Drinking the yage (as it is also known) makes you vomit uncontrollably, and possibly gives you diarrhea. It is not a pleasant physical experience. It also could have hallucinating effects (but not necessary). The drink could have contributed to any extent to his whole experience. Does not everything have a placebo effect?
- Anna Maria 86
- Posts: 112
- Joined: 22 Nov 2018, 11:42
- Currently Reading:
- Bookshelf Size: 14
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-anna-maria-86.html
- Latest Review: Skills of the Warramunga by Greg Kater
-
- Official Reviewer Representative
- Posts: 2648
- Joined: 10 Aug 2018, 15:10
- Currently Reading: Noah's Quest
- Bookshelf Size: 976
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-kajori-sheryl-paul.html
- Latest Review: Alien Bonds by Carmen Webster Buxton
-
- Previous Member of the Month
- Posts: 6473
- Joined: 10 May 2017, 19:49
- Currently Reading: The Savior
- Bookshelf Size: 530
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-kdstrack.html
- Latest Review: How To Be Successful by M. Curtis McCoy
- Src_reader
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 27 Mar 2019, 15:00
- Currently Reading:
- Bookshelf Size: 17
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-src-reader.html
- Latest Review: The Sins of a Master Race by Matthew Tysz
- Ava973
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 26 Mar 2019, 17:11
- Favorite Book: Before I let you go
- Currently Reading: How to Stay Alive in the Woods
- Bookshelf Size: 116
- desantismt_17
- Posts: 459
- Joined: 19 Mar 2018, 08:56
- Currently Reading: When Angels Play Poker
- Bookshelf Size: 1313
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-desantismt-17.html
- Latest Review: Sasquatch Did It! by Patricia Komar
- Ekta Kumari
- Book of the Month Participant
- Posts: 1059
- Joined: 02 Jul 2018, 02:54
- Favorite Book: Rebecca
- Currently Reading: Wild World
- Bookshelf Size: 84
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-ekta-kumari.html
- Latest Review: Humanity Must Survive the 21st Century by Theodore Vornicu
- Reading Device: B00I15SB16
-Guy de Maupassant
- akintundeazeez
- Posts: 1
- Joined: 05 Apr 2019, 05:51
- Bookshelf Size: 0
- Mai Tran
- Posts: 346
- Joined: 07 Sep 2018, 05:45
- Currently Reading: What's Your Favorite Color?
- Bookshelf Size: 165
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-mai-tran.html
- Latest Review: Then Comes The Flood by John Payne
- NL Hartje
- Previous Member of the Month
- Posts: 1262
- Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 12:58
- Favorite Book: Kushiel's Dart
- Currently Reading:
- Bookshelf Size: 385
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-nl-hartje.html
- Latest Review: Looking forward as the Journey continues by George Mills
Although I’ve heard many stories of people reaching a higher plane with psychotropics, your mention of the placebo effect has never crossed my mind. Very astute! I tend to agree that this likely has a large impact on the results.
-Dr. Seuss
- InStoree
- Previous Member of the Month
- Posts: 1818
- Joined: 04 Jan 2019, 14:59
- Currently Reading:
- Bookshelf Size: 181
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-instoree.html
- Latest Review: The Mermaid Broker by Sue Hinkin
~Tayma Tameem