What's you opinion on the experience of ingesting of a plant concoction in the Amazon?
- Abacus
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Re: What's you opinion on the experience of ingesting of a plant concoction in the Amazon?
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I cannot speak for experience though. I’m not saying there isn’t a chance it was a true spiritual experience with a desired outcome. I’m just more inclined to the placebo effect theory.
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There is also the possibility this concoction might have triggered his subconscious desires and in a way, maybe impulse them into that experience. That’s what certain drugs do, isn’t it? And since the brain is such a powerful organ, I think it might be possible.mmm17 wrote: ↑26 Mar 2019, 17:55I feel the same way. I think the concoction has actual chemical effects, but that alone might not be enough. He is a special person who believed he could have a spiritual experience, and so he did.Drmplant wrote: ↑17 Mar 2019, 18:59 I believe the plant concoction is a strong hallucinogenic. I believe that he saw what he was concentrating on prior to taking it. I don't think it was a placebo effect, I believe he was truly high. I just think it was more of a self fulfilling prophecy. He believed he would so he did.
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I agree. I don’t think he really thought it through. Even if it’s part of their culture, they might be used to it, but being a stranger to that drink? (And on an empty stomach) It might have been a combination of all those things.
- Emily Guerra
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I totally agree. Positive or negative, placebo effect is real. I think if he’d received the drink and someone said it was some local fruit juice or tea with no hallucinating effects whatsoever, the story would be totally different.briellejee wrote: ↑07 Mar 2019, 22:20 I think it's a placebo effect - which is powerful. Even in medical research, placebo effects could go a long way of a patient's health. The author having knowledge that such concoction can help him led him to believe that it has an effect on him. Having a preconceived idea can really affect how you see things. Such faith can truly move mountains.
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I agree. I don't believe this is the way that God speaks us. It makes me doubt the source of his vision.abbiejoice wrote: ↑07 Mar 2019, 23:51 I feel uncomfortable whenever I remember the author's experience of a vision after ingesting a plant concoction. This opens the possibility of a hallucination and thus, questions the validity of his vision.
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My Mom was a nurse and worked in the ER, she explained something about the way alcohol affects people that I always keep in mind. Whatever mood you are in when you start drinking is the mood that will be greatly amplified when you're drunk. It works the same way for expectations. If you go to the bar expecting to get drunk and dance on the bar, you're most likely to get drunk and dance on the bar.
So with all that in mind, he very well could've had a unique experience because of his body chemistry or went into the experience with expectations that manifested. Having an expectation is very similar to a placebo. I can take a pain pill for a broken leg and expect to have some relief and be sleepy while another person takes it and expects to be high as a kite and it becomes true because it's a mind game. The drug does have a small euphoric effect on most people but that's it. Some people have extremely low tolerances for drugs. That could also have been a factor for him.
Bottom line, in my opinion he was looking for a spiritual experience when he tried the concoction. Whether the concoction was strong enough to induce spiritual experiences for him is not known, the important part is that he had one. Whether the concoction was real or a placebo ultimately doesn't matter.