Team Rachel or team main protagonist?

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Julius_
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Re: Team Rachel or team main protagonist?

Post by Julius_ »

ciecheesemeister wrote: 09 Jan 2020, 13:29 While the main character seemed like a genuinely good guy and Rachel seemed to be a bitter and angry person, I think that neither of them did a very good job of communicating the frustrations that were eating away at their relationship. Also, if he gets to go on a yearly trip with his friends, she should get to go on a yearly trip with her friends.
I agree with you on the communication breakdown. It's their mutual role to ensure that their relationship remains strong. I'm sorry but the retaliation won't help. So, what of the kids after they all go for a trip? Especially considering that Rachel will now be going for the trip just because the protagonist is also going.
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Post by Julius_ »

Erick Muyesu wrote: 09 Jan 2020, 13:46 When one partner finds him/ herself opposing what his/her better half loves, tension is bound to born between them. This is what kills the relationship in the long run. Rachel should have considered what would have made the main character happy and everything would have been fine between them.
I agree that patners should for us on what makes their better halves happy, but what if your patners likings have a pressing effect on you, take for instance, Rachael's reactions towards the trips. Do you suggest that she should just be silent and act like nothing really is wrong? I think that could have had a worse effect, than airing out your dissatisfaction.
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Post by Julius_ »

pshaw1414 wrote: 09 Jan 2020, 15:52
Laura Lee wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:12 It's a good question. I agree that Rachel came across as unsympathetic, but she was clearly unhappy about something. I could really see both sides. The author was super-stressed out, clearly. He was burning the candle at both ends. At the same time, if he never enabled his wife to have time off, I can see how she'd begin to resent that. Stay-at-home moms work hard, too, just in a different way. It can be very exhausting constantly being the caretaker of the kids and never getting a break.

My ex used to take time off for long man-weekends. I didn't mind. I was supportive of that. But then when I needed a break from five kids, the last two barely 12 months apart, he refused to help make that happen. It's not why we got divorced, but his selfishness was.
I agree. I felt that Rachel didn't get any time to herself (apart from somehow going to the gym during the day with 3 kids in tow). If he is always getting his time away, why shouldn't she?

I stay home with my 2 babies, 20 months apart, and my husband works super hard. But neither of us really get "time off". I couldn't imagine him working 11 hour days and then leaving for a week to vacation without me.
You have a valid point. The protagonist should have considered Rachel for a trip or a vacation too. We can't assume that she's not doing anything when all the house chores and looking after the children are all hers
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Post by Julius_ »

After a serious consideration, I think I'm not going to side with any. First, the protagonist assumes that he deserves a vacation after a year's hardwork, yet his wife, Rachael, had also been working hard at home. I think the vivaton should be for both of them. However, Rachel was too overactive. Something so simple received a bomb from her. They, therefore, should have collectively come together to solve their Miss understandings.
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Post by Julius_ »

pshaw1414 wrote: 09 Jan 2020, 15:52
Laura Lee wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:12 It's a good question. I agree that Rachel came across as unsympathetic, but she was clearly unhappy about something. I could really see both sides. The author was super-stressed out, clearly. He was burning the candle at both ends. At the same time, if he never enabled his wife to have time off, I can see how she'd begin to resent that. Stay-at-home moms work hard, too, just in a different way. It can be very exhausting constantly being the caretaker of the kids and never getting a break.

My ex used to take time off for long man-weekends. I didn't mind. I was supportive of that. But then when I needed a break from five kids, the last two barely 12 months apart, he refused to help make that happen. It's not why we got divorced, but his selfishness was.
I agree. I felt that Rachel didn't get any time to herself (apart from somehow going to the gym during the day with 3 kids in tow). If he is always getting his time away, why shouldn't she?

I stay home with my 2 babies, 20 months apart, and my husband works super hard. But neither of us really get "time off". I couldn't imagine him working 11 hour days and then leaving for a week to vacation without me.
This is true, the protagonist should have considered a family trip too, instead of assuming that his wife didn't deserve a trip, or a break off her work.
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Post by Julius_ »

djr6090 wrote: 10 Jan 2020, 19:52
unamilagra wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 17:41 To be fair, I am married with young kids too, and I would never in a million years let my husband take annual trips to exotic places without me, especially if he came back injured from the first one! That said, there were definitely lots of issues with their marriage aside from that, which I'm sure they both contributed to. I wonder if our look at her is skewed because we are viewing her through the lens of her ex-husband though. It would be interesting to read her version of the story.
I agree with you, here. I found the protagonist to be narcissistic, and his wife in need of a vacation herself. Really now...leaving your wife alone with twins to take care of? And to resent her for being tired? I have to land in camp Rachael.
All that said, she was a little overactive in most of the cases. The best thing she should have done was to sit down and talk with her husband politely.
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Post by Julius_ »

DorcasToo wrote: 11 Jan 2020, 02:45 I think the two were just incompatible. Rachel wanted a man who will always be there for her not a risker who wants to do the most daring things in life. On the other hand, the author wants to live his life as a man feeding his adrenaline. So they just had no middle point, just drafting apart even more.
The ball rests on both of them, but I'm wondering if it's compatibility that was missing, or the protagonist was just too unfair for his wife. What if he considered a family vacation too at the end of the year?
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Julius_ wrote: 20 Jan 2020, 07:28
DorcasToo wrote: 11 Jan 2020, 02:45 I think the two were just incompatible. Rachel wanted a man who will always be there for her not a risker who wants to do the most daring things in life. On the other hand, the author wants to live his life as a man feeding his adrenaline. So they just had no middle point, just drafting apart even more.
The ball rests on both of them, but I'm wondering if it's compatibility that was missing, or the protagonist was just too unfair for his wife. What if he considered a family vacation too at the end of the year?
I agree with you on that sometimes it's the things that we take for granted that matter the most.
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Julius_ wrote: 20 Jan 2020, 06:51
esp1975 wrote: 19 Jan 2020, 17:02 Can I be on Team Divorce and Future Happiness for both?
I think it's hard to draw any real conclusions about their relationship because we are only getting one side of the story. But the truth is, people deserve to be happy. And people deserve second chances. And the kids deserve to live in a house where both of their parents aren't miserable.
So, I was glad they finally got divorced. That gave them both a chance to move forward into something better.
I agree with you on that, but what of the kids? I believe divorce affects the kids more than it affect the parties. I'm also glad that they divorced. It's also unfair to expose the kids to such a severe family misunderstanding.
I am a child of divorce. I know exactly the impact it has on children. I also had an aunt who decided not to divorce her husband until after both of her kids were out of high school, and I saw the impact that had on my cousins. My brother and I both turned out a whole lot better adjusted than my cousins. We are also able to have close relationships with both of our parents. Oh, and our parents are able to be friends now later in life.
The longer people stay in bad relationships, the more acrimonious the divorce will be, significantly impacting even their ability to be cordial at important events in their kids' future.
My parents' divorce was not easy on me or my brother. But I would not wish my cousins' high school years trying to navigate their parents' "marriage" on anyone.
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Post by Julius_ »

esp1975 wrote: 20 Jan 2020, 21:58
Julius_ wrote: 20 Jan 2020, 06:51
esp1975 wrote: 19 Jan 2020, 17:02 Can I be on Team Divorce and Future Happiness for both?
I think it's hard to draw any real conclusions about their relationship because we are only getting one side of the story. But the truth is, people deserve to be happy. And people deserve second chances. And the kids deserve to live in a house where both of their parents aren't miserable.
So, I was glad they finally got divorced. That gave them both a chance to move forward into something better.
I agree with you on that, but what of the kids? I believe divorce affects the kids more than it affect the parties. I'm also glad that they divorced. It's also unfair to expose the kids to such a severe family misunderstanding.
I am a child of divorce. I know exactly the impact it has on children. I also had an aunt who decided not to divorce her husband until after both of her kids were out of high school, and I saw the impact that had on my cousins. My brother and I both turned out a whole lot better adjusted than my cousins. We are also able to have close relationships with both of our parents. Oh, and our parents are able to be friends now later in life.
The longer people stay in bad relationships, the more acrimonious the divorce will be, significantly impacting even their ability to be cordial at important events in their kids' future.
My parents' divorce was not easy on me or my brother. But I would not wish my cousins' high school years trying to navigate their parents' "marriage" on anyone.
Sad to hear that... Maybe I'm just naive about the devorce thing because they aren't common here, but if negotiations fail in a relationship, divorce is the best in that case. Thanks for making me learn that abusive relationship without divorce has a worse effect in the children.
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Post by Julius_ »

Stephanie Elizabeth wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 13:37 I have to agree with you about Rachel; she didn't seem to take into account the main character's happiness. Being so vehemently opposed to something your partner loves is bound to create tension.
I also thinking she was a little unfair for the protagonist. But on the other hand, the protagonist should have considered her happiness too. Assuming that she's not working, when she had the twins to take care of wasn't so fair.
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Post by Julius_ »

unamilagra wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 17:41 To be fair, I am married with young kids too, and I would never in a million years let my husband take annual trips to exotic places without me, especially if he came back injured from the first one! That said, there were definitely lots of issues with their marriage aside from that, which I'm sure they both contributed to. I wonder if our look at her is skewed because we are viewing her through the lens of her ex-husband though. It would be interesting to read her version of the story.
The book is somehow biast on her side, if we could just view the situation through her lenses, maybe we could be fair on them. But we can't assume her role in the breakdown if their marriage. She was too insecure.
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Post by Julius_ »

Laura Lee wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:12 It's a good question. I agree that Rachel came across as unsympathetic, but she was clearly unhappy about something. I could really see both sides. The author was super-stressed out, clearly. He was burning the candle at both ends. At the same time, if he never enabled his wife to have time off, I can see how she'd begin to resent that. Stay-at-home moms work hard, too, just in a different way. It can be very exhausting constantly being the caretaker of the kids and never getting a break.

My ex used to take time off for long man-weekends. I didn't mind. I was supportive of that. But then when I needed a break from five kids, the last two barely 12 months apart, he refused to help make that happen. It's not why we got divorced, but his selfishness was.
Exactly my thoughts. A stay at home mom has a lot of work, especially considering that there were kids involved. The protagonist should have considered giving her some days off too.
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Post by Julius_ »

karendi jururi wrote: 04 Jan 2020, 05:44 I think Racheal may come across as rather unrealistic and somewhat of an enemy to the protagonist's missions. However, her decisions do not seem as unrealistic on a closer look. Who would want their husband away all the time? Who would help her look after the kids?
I am team Racheal all the way. Calling her selfish is judging her too harshly. After all, the protagonist abandons her with little kids to go to various missions. That is more selfish to me than any of Racheal's actions or words which to be fair, I found rather nagging.
I agree with you that the protagonist didn't consider her wife's views, especially now that he was away most of the time and Rachel had to look after the kids all on her own. But also, Rachel should have considered conversing politely with her husband and solve it in an acceptable manner, instead of the overreacting.
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Post by Julius_ »

B Creech wrote: 04 Jan 2020, 12:20 Rachel did come across as a nagging wife at times. However, the main protagonist was totally selfish in many ways. I like the concept of the Man Missions, I think that was an awesome way to spend time with friends. However, I think the women should have had the same opportunity to go away for an annual outlet and let the guys stay home with the kids!
Yes, or maybe the protagonist should have considered organizing for a bit of family holiday where they would spend with the family together. Hiking and going places. I have a feeling that Rachel felt that her husband didn't have time for her and the kids. Leaving Rachel to go out alone would change these feelings either.
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