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Nym182 wrote: ↑06 Feb 2020, 10:37 One of the biggest issues I had with this book was the relationship between Adam and Carly. It is my opinion that their relationship was dangerously romanticized.

Adam becomes obsessed with Carly almost immediately. Even though he has only known her for a month or so, he is willing to die for her.

He also expresses his "love" for her in a dangerous ways. He washes her shower and becomes overly protective of her, even though her powers are stronger and she has more experience with them than he does. In addition, he eavesdrops on her private conversation at least 3 times and I don't feel like the author portrayed that as being a bad thing to do.

While I acknowledge that young love can be strong and passionate, I don't think a book aimed at teenagers should be taught or normalize these types of actions/feelings.

AntonelaMaria wrote: ↑07 Feb 2020, 16:24

Nym182 wrote: ↑06 Feb 2020, 10:37 One of the biggest issues I had with this book was the relationship between Adam and Carly. It is my opinion that their relationship was dangerously romanticized.

Adam becomes obsessed with Carly almost immediately. Even though he has only known her for a month or so, he is willing to die for her.

He also expresses his "love" for her in a dangerous ways. He washes her shower and becomes overly protective of her, even though her powers are stronger and she has more experience with them than he does. In addition, he eavesdrops on her private conversation at least 3 times and I don't feel like the author portrayed that as being a bad thing to do.

While I acknowledge that young love can be strong and passionate, I don't think a book aimed at teenagers should be taught or normalize these types of actions/feelings.

This I would definitely describe as a toxic relationship. He goes from one obsession - his mother to another- Carly.

B Creech wrote: ↑07 Feb 2020, 17:50 Adam and Carly's relationship did get intimate rather quickly. They weren't together long before they were spending every night together! Sorry, I'm from the old school, but I still know a ton of parents today that would not allow that in their homes! Just because they seemed to show restraint in some ways I was taken aback about the sleepovers and about Adam watching her shower. This wasn't a book that young adults should be free to read!

gilliansisley wrote: ↑07 Feb 2020, 14:24 Oh. My. Gosh.

This was my absolute biggest pet peeve. And this is supposed to be for young, pre-pubescent readers, ages 11-17? HELL NO.

Their relationship is unhealthy as hell, but it's portrayed as totally normal, which is wildly dangerous. I liked Carly as a character, but completely detested Adam.

Apart from the most obvious concerning things going on in their relationship in general, the time when I was actually most upset was when Carly describes finding the Den. She describes how disturbed she is by the pictures of JoAnn, and the journal, and all that. She's overwhelmed, and yet she says "This isn't the time to be a weak little girl and run away". So she burns down the Den.

Yes. Because apparently, thinking your boyfriend is sick and perverted is WEAK. Because STRONG girls find evidence of their boyfriend having a f*cking scary-ass torture Den in the middle of the woods with CHLOROFORM, and WEAPONS, and SEX TOYS which "make it obvious what this structure was meant to be used for", and they burn down all of the evidence to protect their sociopathic, murderous and possessive boyfriend.

What an absolutely horrific message to give to young, impressionable girls.

And after burning down the Den, Carly says something along the lines of, "Adam deserves a fresh start, and I'm going to give it to him. He's made mistakes, but he's still a really good guy. I'm going to dedicate my life to healing and fixing him."

Horrifying. Truly, truly, disturbing. This is NOT a healthy example for how a relationship should be. If you find out your BF kidnapped and murdered (by accident, but still) some innocent girl just because he was uncontrollably horny, you take that sh*t straight to the police. You don't destroy evidence and cover it up in the name of "love".

In all honesty, I was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a guy who sexually assaulted me, and this book was a trigger for me. Red flags everywhere. There are points in the book where Adam says, "I'm not a monster", and I was in my reading chair saying, "YES YOU ARE, you psychopath!".

AntonelaMaria wrote: ↑07 Feb 2020, 16:24

Nym182 wrote: ↑06 Feb 2020, 10:37 One of the biggest issues I had with this book was the relationship between Adam and Carly. It is my opinion that their relationship was dangerously romanticized.

Adam becomes obsessed with Carly almost immediately. Even though he has only known her for a month or so, he is willing to die for her.

He also expresses his "love" for her in a dangerous ways. He washes her shower and becomes overly protective of her, even though her powers are stronger and she has more experience with them than he does. In addition, he eavesdrops on her private conversation at least 3 times and I don't feel like the author portrayed that as being a bad thing to do.

While I acknowledge that young love can be strong and passionate, I don't think a book aimed at teenagers should be taught or normalize these types of actions/feelings.

This I would definitely describe as a toxic relationship. He goes from one obsession - his mother to another- Carly.

ReyvrexQuestor Reyes wrote: ↑08 Feb 2020, 20:14 Adam, in his conduct with his relationship with Carly, may have done things ways beyond decency. But if we have to look at it from another perspective, these could just be matters that he is to mitigate with his redeeming traits next time. Additionally, in love, there are no limitations. For instance, what's the minimum time for a boy to fall in love with a girl to call it true love? So, what's all this love-at-first-sight thing? It's nearing Valentine's Day and let's not be baffled by any of love's conundrum to be prevented from being smitten in the first chance we get.

Howlan wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 04:45 Yes I agree upon thai. I think Carly forgive shim for everything he ever does and then Adam himself gets angry with her just because she hides her suspisions about his real origin and Carly apologises to him instead.

Nym182 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2020, 12:46

gilliansisley wrote: ↑07 Feb 2020, 14:24 Oh. My. Gosh.

This was my absolute biggest pet peeve. And this is supposed to be for young, pre-pubescent readers, ages 11-17? HELL NO.

Their relationship is unhealthy as hell, but it's portrayed as totally normal, which is wildly dangerous. I liked Carly as a character, but completely detested Adam.

Apart from the most obvious concerning things going on in their relationship in general, the time when I was actually most upset was when Carly describes finding the Den. She describes how disturbed she is by the pictures of JoAnn, and the journal, and all that. She's overwhelmed, and yet she says "This isn't the time to be a weak little girl and run away". So she burns down the Den.

Yes. Because apparently, thinking your boyfriend is sick and perverted is WEAK. Because STRONG girls find evidence of their boyfriend having a f*cking scary-ass torture Den in the middle of the woods with CHLOROFORM, and WEAPONS, and SEX TOYS which "make it obvious what this structure was meant to be used for", and they burn down all of the evidence to protect their sociopathic, murderous and possessive boyfriend.

What an absolutely horrific message to give to young, impressionable girls.

And after burning down the Den, Carly says something along the lines of, "Adam deserves a fresh start, and I'm going to give it to him. He's made mistakes, but he's still a really good guy. I'm going to dedicate my life to healing and fixing him."

Horrifying. Truly, truly, disturbing. This is NOT a healthy example for how a relationship should be. If you find out your BF kidnapped and murdered (by accident, but still) some innocent girl just because he was uncontrollably horny, you take that sh*t straight to the police. You don't destroy evidence and cover it up in the name of "love".

In all honesty, I was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a guy who sexually assaulted me, and this book was a trigger for me. Red flags everywhere. There are points in the book where Adam says, "I'm not a monster", and I was in my reading chair saying, "YES YOU ARE, you psychopath!".

Say it a little louder for those in the back!!!

You are 110% right about this!

Love and relationships are confusing enough to try to figure out in high school (sh*t, I am 30 and married and it's still complicated!). Carly's actions really seem that of someone who is in an abusive relationship... the covering up, the 2nd/3rd/4th chances, the justification... And this is what love is between Carly and Adam... And at no point does the author seem to acknowledge back a$$wards.

It's not ok to give a rapist/killer (I'm pretty comfortable saying that he probably would have gone down that path) a fresh start because you have made your own mistakes (I think she also says something like "I'm not perfect" CRINGE) And this is supposed to be romantic?

I also kept stopping throughout the book to think "are we just ignoring the fact that he is a psychopath?'

omg and the scene when he goes into the bathroom to watch Carly shower and wash herself? That part creeped me out so much!

gilliansisley wrote: ↑09 Feb 2020, 13:05

Nym182 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2020, 12:46

gilliansisley wrote: ↑07 Feb 2020, 14:24 Oh. My. Gosh.

This was my absolute biggest pet peeve. And this is supposed to be for young, pre-pubescent readers, ages 11-17? HELL NO.

Their relationship is unhealthy as hell, but it's portrayed as totally normal, which is wildly dangerous. I liked Carly as a character, but completely detested Adam.

Apart from the most obvious concerning things going on in their relationship in general, the time when I was actually most upset was when Carly describes finding the Den. She describes how disturbed she is by the pictures of JoAnn, and the journal, and all that. She's overwhelmed, and yet she says "This isn't the time to be a weak little girl and run away". So she burns down the Den.

Yes. Because apparently, thinking your boyfriend is sick and perverted is WEAK. Because STRONG girls find evidence of their boyfriend having a f*cking scary-ass torture Den in the middle of the woods with CHLOROFORM, and WEAPONS, and SEX TOYS which "make it obvious what this structure was meant to be used for", and they burn down all of the evidence to protect their sociopathic, murderous and possessive boyfriend.

What an absolutely horrific message to give to young, impressionable girls.

And after burning down the Den, Carly says something along the lines of, "Adam deserves a fresh start, and I'm going to give it to him. He's made mistakes, but he's still a really good guy. I'm going to dedicate my life to healing and fixing him."

Horrifying. Truly, truly, disturbing. This is NOT a healthy example for how a relationship should be. If you find out your BF kidnapped and murdered (by accident, but still) some innocent girl just because he was uncontrollably horny, you take that sh*t straight to the police. You don't destroy evidence and cover it up in the name of "love".

In all honesty, I was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a guy who sexually assaulted me, and this book was a trigger for me. Red flags everywhere. There are points in the book where Adam says, "I'm not a monster", and I was in my reading chair saying, "YES YOU ARE, you psychopath!".

Say it a little louder for those in the back!!!

You are 110% right about this!

Love and relationships are confusing enough to try to figure out in high school (sh*t, I am 30 and married and it's still complicated!). Carly's actions really seem that of someone who is in an abusive relationship... the covering up, the 2nd/3rd/4th chances, the justification... And this is what love is between Carly and Adam... And at no point does the author seem to acknowledge back a$$wards.

It's not ok to give a rapist/killer (I'm pretty comfortable saying that he probably would have gone down that path) a fresh start because you have made your own mistakes (I think she also says something like "I'm not perfect" CRINGE) And this is supposed to be romantic?

I also kept stopping throughout the book to think "are we just ignoring the fact that he is a psychopath?'

omg and the scene when he goes into the bathroom to watch Carly shower and wash herself? That part creeped me out so much!

AHHH the shower scene!! How could I forget! My husband was in the kitchen when I read that part, and I was like,

"Honey, if we had only been dating for a few weeks and you just waltzed on in, pulled back the curtain and just STARED AT ME while I was showering, I would have ran for the f*cking hills."

Because who does that kind of sh*t? Psychopaths. Serial killers. And the like!

And what about when Adam's making out with her ferociously against the car, and Carly says "stop" several times and he just keeps going at it, and she pushes him off and he's all, "Oh my gosh, I'm so so sorry, I love you you're my whole world I can't live without you", that sh*t is STRAIGHT out of the emotional abusers handbook.

Manipulative scumbag...