Adam and Carly - Romantic or Dangerously Romanticized?

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Re: Adam and Carly - Romantic or Dangerously Romanticized?

Post by Alyssa »

I was surprised by how disturbing their relationship was. After I finished the book and was thinking about it, I realized in the author’s bio it says how she likes to discover other people’s minds. Makes me think Adam makes a full circle to show how as a society, most have accepted that this is normal.
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Post by gilliansisley »

Nym182 wrote: 09 Feb 2020, 18:51
gilliansisley wrote: 09 Feb 2020, 13:05
Nym182 wrote: 08 Feb 2020, 12:46

Say it a little louder for those in the back!!!

You are 110% right about this!

Love and relationships are confusing enough to try to figure out in high school (sh*t, I am 30 and married and it's still complicated!). Carly's actions really seem that of someone who is in an abusive relationship... the covering up, the 2nd/3rd/4th chances, the justification... And this is what love is between Carly and Adam... And at no point does the author seem to acknowledge back a$$wards.

It's not ok to give a rapist/killer (I'm pretty comfortable saying that he probably would have gone down that path) a fresh start because you have made your own mistakes (I think she also says something like "I'm not perfect" CRINGE) And this is supposed to be romantic?

I also kept stopping throughout the book to think "are we just ignoring the fact that he is a psychopath?'

omg and the scene when he goes into the bathroom to watch Carly shower and wash herself? That part creeped me out so much!
AHHH the shower scene!! How could I forget! My husband was in the kitchen when I read that part, and I was like,

"Honey, if we had only been dating for a few weeks and you just waltzed on in, pulled back the curtain and just STARED AT ME while I was showering, I would have ran for the f*cking hills."

Because who does that kind of sh*t? Psychopaths. Serial killers. And the like!

And what about when Adam's making out with her ferociously against the car, and Carly says "stop" several times and he just keeps going at it, and she pushes him off and he's all, "Oh my gosh, I'm so so sorry, I love you you're my whole world I can't live without you", that sh*t is STRAIGHT out of the emotional abusers handbook.

Manipulative scumbag...
Oooomg I totally blacked out that part!!!

What did you feel about the whole “Carly wearing a little black dress and stilettos while interrogating Vick” scene? Like there are definitely some parts that came out of a soft core porn movie...
It felt very forced and awkward. Just like when they described Carly slipping into bed in a lacy black bra and matching panties, and I was just pulling out my hair, because there was SUCH a focus on sexualizing this 16 year old girl!
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Post by Nym182 »

gilliansisley wrote: 10 Feb 2020, 10:48
Nym182 wrote: 09 Feb 2020, 18:51
gilliansisley wrote: 09 Feb 2020, 13:05

AHHH the shower scene!! How could I forget! My husband was in the kitchen when I read that part, and I was like,

"Honey, if we had only been dating for a few weeks and you just waltzed on in, pulled back the curtain and just STARED AT ME while I was showering, I would have ran for the f*cking hills."

Because who does that kind of sh*t? Psychopaths. Serial killers. And the like!

And what about when Adam's making out with her ferociously against the car, and Carly says "stop" several times and he just keeps going at it, and she pushes him off and he's all, "Oh my gosh, I'm so so sorry, I love you you're my whole world I can't live without you", that sh*t is STRAIGHT out of the emotional abusers handbook.

Manipulative scumbag...
Oooomg I totally blacked out that part!!!

What did you feel about the whole “Carly wearing a little black dress and stilettos while interrogating Vick” scene? Like there are definitely some parts that came out of a softcore porn movie...
It felt very forced and awkward. Just like when they described Carly slipping into bed in a lacy black bra and matching panties, and I was just pulling out my hair, because there was SUCH a focus on sexualizing this 16 year old girl!
And they are such cliche' sexualizations! (totally not the point, I get it but come on! I never wore matching lacy bra and panty sets!)

it's like the author added in some bad 90s movie scenes for flavor...
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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Post by Salma_asa »

Initial of their relationship was a bit toxic, adam being jealous and overprotective. But over time they mature, so does their love.
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Post by Nym182 »

Salma_asa wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 09:17 Initial of their relationship was a bit toxic, adam being jealous and overprotective. But over time they mature, so does their love.
But that is my issue... The book doesn't cover a lot of time... it's maybe a month-month and a half and Adam and Carly are still going full throttle ahead. I did appreciate that Adam didn't capitalize on Carly's situation when she wanted to have sex, but Adam remains toxic for her the whole time (I think) He's overprotective and jealous, yes, but he is condescending in his feelings of HIM protecting HER considering that Carly is much stronger and has more experience with her powers.

He also unapologetically eavesdrops on her conversations with other people... at least 3 times. I didn't notice any maturing on his end (other than not having sex with her)...
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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Post by Tan TR »

gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:24 Oh. My. Gosh.

This was my absolute biggest pet peeve. And this is supposed to be for young, pre-pubescent readers, ages 11-17? HELL NO.

Their relationship is unhealthy as hell, but it's portrayed as totally normal, which is wildly dangerous. I liked Carly as a character, but completely detested Adam.

Apart from the most obvious concerning things going on in their relationship in general, the time when I was actually most upset was when Carly describes finding the Den. She describes how disturbed she is by the pictures of JoAnn, and the journal, and all that. She's overwhelmed, and yet she says "This isn't the time to be a weak little girl and run away". So she burns down the Den.

Yes. Because apparently, thinking your boyfriend is sick and perverted is WEAK. Because STRONG girls find evidence of their boyfriend having a f*cking scary-ass torture Den in the middle of the woods with CHLOROFORM, and WEAPONS, and SEX TOYS which "make it obvious what this structure was meant to be used for", and they burn down all of the evidence to protect their sociopathic, murderous and possessive boyfriend.

What an absolutely horrific message to give to young, impressionable girls.

And after burning down the Den, Carly says something along the lines of, "Adam deserves a fresh start, and I'm going to give it to him. He's made mistakes, but he's still a really good guy. I'm going to dedicate my life to healing and fixing him."

Horrifying. Truly, truly, disturbing. This is NOT a healthy example for how a relationship should be. If you find out your BF kidnapped and murdered (by accident, but still) some innocent girl just because he was uncontrollably horny, you take that sh*t straight to the police. You don't destroy evidence and cover it up in the name of "love".

In all honesty, I was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a guy who sexually assaulted me, and this book was a trigger for me. Red flags everywhere. There are points in the book where Adam says, "I'm not a monster", and I was in my reading chair saying, "YES YOU ARE, you psychopath!".
I completely agree with how disturbing this relationship is. It was everything but healthy. Here we have this guy that at the beginning of the book is described as a sexual abuser if not a serial killer. I mean, a den, come on! And the fact that Carly finds the Den and acts like it’s not so bad, even to the point that Carly thinks of Adam as a victim to his own actions!!!

But the thing that gets me more than anything is that the Den, Terry’s accidental murder and the obsession of his mother don’t actually have anything to do with the plot. It frustrates me so much, it feels like the whole thing was only for shock value and to get readers.
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Post by Amy747 »

This is definitely a very dangerous message to send to young impressionable minds. People like this rarely change, no matter how many fresh starts they get.
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Post by Nym182 »

Amy747 wrote: 12 Feb 2020, 08:34 This is definitely a very dangerous message to send to young impressionable minds. People like this rarely change, no matter how many fresh starts they get.
Yeah, exactly... their relationship should not be normalized and it is incredibly dangerous to give high schoolers the idea that someone who has done terrible things just needs love to change.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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Post by Nym182 »

Tan TR wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 22:41
gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:24 Oh. My. Gosh.

This was my absolute biggest pet peeve. And this is supposed to be for young, pre-pubescent readers, ages 11-17? HELL NO.

Their relationship is unhealthy as hell, but it's portrayed as totally normal, which is wildly dangerous. I liked Carly as a character, but completely detested Adam.

Apart from the most obvious concerning things going on in their relationship in general, the time when I was actually most upset was when Carly describes finding the Den. She describes how disturbed she is by the pictures of JoAnn, and the journal, and all that. She's overwhelmed, and yet she says "This isn't the time to be a weak little girl and run away". So she burns down the Den.

Yes. Because apparently, thinking your boyfriend is sick and perverted is WEAK. Because STRONG girls find evidence of their boyfriend having a f*cking scary-ass torture Den in the middle of the woods with CHLOROFORM, and WEAPONS, and SEX TOYS which "make it obvious what this structure was meant to be used for", and they burn down all of the evidence to protect their sociopathic, murderous and possessive boyfriend.

What an absolutely horrific message to give to young, impressionable girls.

And after burning down the Den, Carly says something along the lines of, "Adam deserves a fresh start, and I'm going to give it to him. He's made mistakes, but he's still a really good guy. I'm going to dedicate my life to healing and fixing him."

Horrifying. Truly, truly, disturbing. This is NOT a healthy example for how a relationship should be. If you find out your BF kidnapped and murdered (by accident, but still) some innocent girl just because he was uncontrollably horny, you take that sh*t straight to the police. You don't destroy evidence and cover it up in the name of "love".

In all honesty, I was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a guy who sexually assaulted me, and this book was a trigger for me. Red flags everywhere. There are points in the book where Adam says, "I'm not a monster", and I was in my reading chair saying, "YES YOU ARE, you psychopath!".
I completely agree with how disturbing this relationship is. It was everything but healthy. Here we have this guy that at the beginning of the book is described as a sexual abuser if not a serial killer. I mean, a den, come on! And the fact that Carly finds the Den and acts like it’s not so bad, even to the point that Carly thinks of Adam as a victim to his own actions!!!

But the thing that gets me more than anything is that the Den, Terry’s accidental murder and the obsession of his mother don’t actually have anything to do with the plot. It frustrates me so much, it feels like the whole thing was only for shock value and to get readers.
which is an interesting thing considering the targeted audience...

And I agree. Carly's acceptance of what happened is incredibly frustrating! Especially since she says that he DESERVES a fresh start because she's not innocent...

The only way she could empathize with him is if she killed someone herself... in which case this would be a love story about two murderers...
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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Post by ciecheesemeister »

Are Adam and Carly romantic or dangerously romanticized? I'm going with dangerously romanticized. It has the Twilight Problem: the girl thinks she can save the troubled boy from himself and redeem him. However, much though I thought Edward Cullen was creepy (and what kind of proper vampire sparkles) at least he just watched Bella sleeping rather than kidnapping anyone with the intent to rape and kill them.
I know the story wasn't real life, but speaking from my own real-life experiences, you cannot redeem a "bad guy." Having serious mental health issues myself (type 2 bipolar disorder and complex PTSD are the primary culprits here) plus very low self-esteem made me the perfect target for the sort of predatory and abusive bad boys that I thought I could redeem because romance.
"You can redeem the bad boy" is a terrible message to be sending young girls. A better message would be "stay well away or end up being another one of his victims."
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Post by ciecheesemeister »

gilliansisley wrote: 10 Feb 2020, 10:48
Nym182 wrote: 09 Feb 2020, 18:51
gilliansisley wrote: 09 Feb 2020, 13:05

AHHH the shower scene!! How could I forget! My husband was in the kitchen when I read that part, and I was like,

"Honey, if we had only been dating for a few weeks and you just waltzed on in, pulled back the curtain and just STARED AT ME while I was showering, I would have ran for the f*cking hills."

Because who does that kind of sh*t? Psychopaths. Serial killers. And the like!

And what about when Adam's making out with her ferociously against the car, and Carly says "stop" several times and he just keeps going at it, and she pushes him off and he's all, "Oh my gosh, I'm so so sorry, I love you you're my whole world I can't live without you", that sh*t is STRAIGHT out of the emotional abusers handbook.

Manipulative scumbag...
Oooomg I totally blacked out that part!!!

What did you feel about the whole “Carly wearing a little black dress and stilettos while interrogating Vick” scene? Like there are definitely some parts that came out of a soft core porn movie...
It felt very forced and awkward. Just like when they described Carly slipping into bed in a lacy black bra and matching panties, and I was just pulling out my hair, because there was SUCH a focus on sexualizing this 16 year old girl!
The sexualization of Carly didn't sit well with me either. Yes, I full well know that teenagers have sexual feelings, but all the focus on Carly's behind, and then describing her in her bra and undies...ew. I was not cool with that.
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Post by gilliansisley »

Tan TR wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 22:41
gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:24 Oh. My. Gosh.

This was my absolute biggest pet peeve. And this is supposed to be for young, pre-pubescent readers, ages 11-17? HELL NO.

Their relationship is unhealthy as hell, but it's portrayed as totally normal, which is wildly dangerous. I liked Carly as a character, but completely detested Adam.

Apart from the most obvious concerning things going on in their relationship in general, the time when I was actually most upset was when Carly describes finding the Den. She describes how disturbed she is by the pictures of JoAnn, and the journal, and all that. She's overwhelmed, and yet she says "This isn't the time to be a weak little girl and run away". So she burns down the Den.

Yes. Because apparently, thinking your boyfriend is sick and perverted is WEAK. Because STRONG girls find evidence of their boyfriend having a f*cking scary-ass torture Den in the middle of the woods with CHLOROFORM, and WEAPONS, and SEX TOYS which "make it obvious what this structure was meant to be used for", and they burn down all of the evidence to protect their sociopathic, murderous and possessive boyfriend.

What an absolutely horrific message to give to young, impressionable girls.

And after burning down the Den, Carly says something along the lines of, "Adam deserves a fresh start, and I'm going to give it to him. He's made mistakes, but he's still a really good guy. I'm going to dedicate my life to healing and fixing him."

Horrifying. Truly, truly, disturbing. This is NOT a healthy example for how a relationship should be. If you find out your BF kidnapped and murdered (by accident, but still) some innocent girl just because he was uncontrollably horny, you take that sh*t straight to the police. You don't destroy evidence and cover it up in the name of "love".

In all honesty, I was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a guy who sexually assaulted me, and this book was a trigger for me. Red flags everywhere. There are points in the book where Adam says, "I'm not a monster", and I was in my reading chair saying, "YES YOU ARE, you psychopath!".
I completely agree with how disturbing this relationship is. It was everything but healthy. Here we have this guy that at the beginning of the book is described as a sexual abuser if not a serial killer. I mean, a den, come on! And the fact that Carly finds the Den and acts like it’s not so bad, even to the point that Carly thinks of Adam as a victim to his own actions!!!

But the thing that gets me more than anything is that the Den, Terry’s accidental murder and the obsession of his mother don’t actually have anything to do with the plot. It frustrates me so much, it feels like the whole thing was only for shock value and to get readers.
IT'S SO TRUE! That's the part that drives me mad, they contributed NOTHING to the overall plot and story. He could have accidentally shattered a window or blown up a car to realize he had powers. He could have just been very emotionally close and protective of his mother, without having to want to f*ck her!! So, so creeping.

Imagining my husband having a creepy sex den with chloroform, and sex toys, and WEAPONS in the middle of the damn woods not only with pictures of his mother EVERYWHERE, but also a diary that has him admitting he wants to f*ck her!? HELL NO, THAT'S NOT AN INSIGNIFICANT DEAL. I would be out of there SO fast! I'd be calling the police SO. FAST.

But all in the name of true, young love, right? *vomits*
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Post by Nym182 »

gilliansisley wrote: 12 Feb 2020, 12:39
Tan TR wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 22:41
gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:24 Oh. My. Gosh.

This was my absolute biggest pet peeve. And this is supposed to be for young, pre-pubescent readers, ages 11-17? HELL NO.

Their relationship is unhealthy as hell, but it's portrayed as totally normal, which is wildly dangerous. I liked Carly as a character, but completely detested Adam.

Apart from the most obvious concerning things going on in their relationship in general, the time when I was actually most upset was when Carly describes finding the Den. She describes how disturbed she is by the pictures of JoAnn, and the journal, and all that. She's overwhelmed, and yet she says "This isn't the time to be a weak little girl and run away". So she burns down the Den.

Yes. Because apparently, thinking your boyfriend is sick and perverted is WEAK. Because STRONG girls find evidence of their boyfriend having a f*cking scary-ass torture Den in the middle of the woods with CHLOROFORM, and WEAPONS, and SEX TOYS which "make it obvious what this structure was meant to be used for", and they burn down all of the evidence to protect their sociopathic, murderous and possessive boyfriend.

What an absolutely horrific message to give to young, impressionable girls.

And after burning down the Den, Carly says something along the lines of, "Adam deserves a fresh start, and I'm going to give it to him. He's made mistakes, but he's still a really good guy. I'm going to dedicate my life to healing and fixing him."

Horrifying. Truly, truly, disturbing. This is NOT a healthy example for how a relationship should be. If you find out your BF kidnapped and murdered (by accident, but still) some innocent girl just because he was uncontrollably horny, you take that sh*t straight to the police. You don't destroy evidence and cover it up in the name of "love".

In all honesty, I was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a guy who sexually assaulted me, and this book was a trigger for me. Red flags everywhere. There are points in the book where Adam says, "I'm not a monster", and I was in my reading chair saying, "YES YOU ARE, you psychopath!".
I completely agree with how disturbing this relationship is. It was everything but healthy. Here we have this guy that at the beginning of the book is described as a sexual abuser if not a serial killer. I mean, a den, come on! And the fact that Carly finds the Den and acts like it’s not so bad, even to the point that Carly thinks of Adam as a victim to his own actions!!!

But the thing that gets me more than anything is that the Den, Terry’s accidental murder and the obsession of his mother don’t actually have anything to do with the plot. It frustrates me so much, it feels like the whole thing was only for shock value and to get readers.
IT'S SO TRUE! That's the part that drives me mad, they contributed NOTHING to the overall plot and story. He could have accidentally shattered a window or blown up a car to realize he had powers. He could have just been very emotionally close and protective of his mother, without having to want to f*ck her!! So, so creeping.

Imagining my husband having a creepy sex den with chloroform, and sex toys, and WEAPONS in the middle of the damn woods not only with pictures of his mother EVERYWHERE, but also a diary that has him admitting he wants to f*ck her!? HELL NO, THAT'S NOT AN INSIGNIFICANT DEAL. I would be out of there SO fast! I'd be calling the police SO. FAST.

But all in the name of true, young love, right? *vomits*
According to Carly, you can't judge Adam because no one is perfect!! :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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Post by freshbook »

I get the fact that were destined for each other. But, love is a strong word. Even in a book of fiction, it's hard to belief that the communication between Adam and Carly was genuine. It just seemed so forced, but it makes for a good read.
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Post by Howlan »

Tan TR wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 22:41
gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:24 Oh. My. Gosh.

This was my absolute biggest pet peeve. And this is supposed to be for young, pre-pubescent readers, ages 11-17? HELL NO.

Their relationship is unhealthy as hell, but it's portrayed as totally normal, which is wildly dangerous. I liked Carly as a character, but completely detested Adam.

Apart from the most obvious concerning things going on in their relationship in general, the time when I was actually most upset was when Carly describes finding the Den. She describes how disturbed she is by the pictures of JoAnn, and the journal, and all that. She's overwhelmed, and yet she says "This isn't the time to be a weak little girl and run away". So she burns down the Den.

Yes. Because apparently, thinking your boyfriend is sick and perverted is WEAK. Because STRONG girls find evidence of their boyfriend having a f*cking scary-ass torture Den in the middle of the woods with CHLOROFORM, and WEAPONS, and SEX TOYS which "make it obvious what this structure was meant to be used for", and they burn down all of the evidence to protect their sociopathic, murderous and possessive boyfriend.

What an absolutely horrific message to give to young, impressionable girls.

And after burning down the Den, Carly says something along the lines of, "Adam deserves a fresh start, and I'm going to give it to him. He's made mistakes, but he's still a really good guy. I'm going to dedicate my life to healing and fixing him."

Horrifying. Truly, truly, disturbing. This is NOT a healthy example for how a relationship should be. If you find out your BF kidnapped and murdered (by accident, but still) some innocent girl just because he was uncontrollably horny, you take that sh*t straight to the police. You don't destroy evidence and cover it up in the name of "love".

In all honesty, I was in an emotionally abusive relationship with a guy who sexually assaulted me, and this book was a trigger for me. Red flags everywhere. There are points in the book where Adam says, "I'm not a monster", and I was in my reading chair saying, "YES YOU ARE, you psychopath!".
I completely agree with how disturbing this relationship is. It was everything but healthy. Here we have this guy that at the beginning of the book is described as a sexual abuser if not a serial killer. I mean, a den, come on! And the fact that Carly finds the Den and acts like it’s not so bad, even to the point that Carly thinks of Adam as a victim to his own actions!!!

But the thing that gets me more than anything is that the Den, Terry’s accidental murder and the obsession of his mother don’t actually have anything to do with the plot. It frustrates me so much, it feels like the whole thing was only for shock value and to get readers.
Yes, the Den! and Carly sees it as "Ok so a guy has secrets" and burns it all off. You really must be joking!
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