Carly - Mary Sue?

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Nym182
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Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Post by Nym182 »

Salma_asa wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 08:59 Yeah! Carly is a nearly perfect character. However she does have some flaws. I think she indulges kane's feelings towards her. If she took matter in seriously beforehand, kane could avoid this heartbreak.
She seemed to rush judgment when she planned vikki's kidnapping.
those are true points.

However, after the whole Kane thing happened, she immediately felt bad about it and that issue got resolved very quickly and with pretty much no drama. Considering these are highschoolers, that doesn't seem likely.

I also think she enjoyed the Vikki interrogation a little too much... But keep in mind, she has been running from Vikki's family for years so I guess I could kinda understand her judgement.
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Post by Amy747 »

I agree with the fact that Carly was annoyingly perfect. However, it did remind me of real people ive known, who always were somehow adored by everyone they met.
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Post by Nym182 »

Amy747 wrote: 12 Feb 2020, 08:00 I agree with the fact that Carly was annoyingly perfect. However, it did remind me of real people ive known, who always were somehow adored by everyone they met.
It drove me crazy! Even the fact that she was a vegetarian annoyed after awhile... idk if the author was trying to create a good role model or something, but it really alienated her for me. I've known people like that as well, but all that serves is making the reader feel bad about themselves if they don't feel so perfect.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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Post by Howlan »

Nym182 wrote: 12 Feb 2020, 09:05
Amy747 wrote: 12 Feb 2020, 08:00 I agree with the fact that Carly was annoyingly perfect. However, it did remind me of real people ive known, who always were somehow adored by everyone they met.
It drove me crazy! Even the fact that she was a vegetarian annoyed after awhile... idk if the author was trying to create a good role model or something, but it really alienated her for me. I've known people like that as well, but all that serves is making the reader feel bad about themselves if they don't feel so perfect.
I do not think Carly was too perfect she had her flaws. One being her too emotional, and if we take her relationship with Adam in question, she far too many flaws.
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Post by Howlan »

Nym182 wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 12:27
Salma_asa wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 08:59 Yeah! Carly is a nearly perfect character. However she does have some flaws. I think she indulges kane's feelings towards her. If she took matter in seriously beforehand, kane could avoid this heartbreak.
She seemed to rush judgment when she planned vikki's kidnapping.
those are true points.

However, after the whole Kane thing happened, she immediately felt bad about it and that issue got resolved very quickly and with pretty much no drama. Considering these are highschoolers, that doesn't seem likely.

I also think she enjoyed the Vikki interrogation a little too much... But keep in mind, she has been running from Vikki's family for years so I guess I could kinda understand her judgement.
Yes she apologised to Kane as she did not want to lose him as a friend as he is one of the people closest to her in the world of humans.
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Post by Howlan »

Nym182 wrote: 06 Feb 2020, 13:52
Howlan wrote: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14 About Carly fixing Adam, I think that she did not fix him per se. Adam felt attracted to her and thus he felt that he could develop affection to a person besides his mother, which made him feel more normal than he thought himself to be. I think that fixed Adam and not Carly.
But still, that type of "development" in that short of time isn't realistic. I think that time of change can only be achieved over years of therapy... not by getting a crush on the new girl.
Yes, if you consider in an actual real world. In this fantasy setup, Adam finally got to know the reason he was attracted to his mother, and Carly was one of the people who accepted him for what he was, so it is definitely possible.
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Post by Howlan »

ciecheesemeister wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 21:12 I found most of the characters two-dimensional. Except for Adam's dad, they were all impossibly good-looking. It felt like I was watching a Disney channel high school movie where everyone was played by a better looking than average person in their twenties. There wasn't a blemished face in sight, nobody was chunky or extremely thin, nobody was short or remarkably tall. The author may have meant this as hyperbole, but it didn't seem as if they were going for a humorous takedown of a stereotypical sitcom.
Carly was a Mary Sue, and Adam was something of a dark Gary Stu. He was impossibly perfect as well once redeemed from his inappropriate thoughts about Jo.
For one, I think Dauma, Carly's mother was not too 2-D. Despite her impressive powers, she like any real person, was far too emotional and was suicidal at the death of her husband. It really makes her not that perfect considering how she almost gives up and asks Carly to save the Descendants without her. That's not responsible for someone with so op.
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Post by corinaelena »

Nym182 wrote: 06 Feb 2020, 10:48 Personally I found Carly to be a boring character.

Not only does she have no character development, but she seems to be perfect at everything and everyone loves her instantly... whether it is Adam, Kane or the Descendants that the meet... In fact, Adam almost instantly becomes a better person (and he was very dark at the beginning of the story) and credits this to Carly. Meaning, she is able to erase years of incestuous thoughts and knock him off his psychopathic track within a week or so of their meeting.

I believe her to be a Mary Sue, which is a character defined as "a type of female character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses."

Other definitions include Mary Sue's having " powers and part of an impeccable bloodline".

I also found it vexing that whenever she is thrown into drama or has someone do her wrong, she immediately forgives them and expresses an unrealistic level of understanding. For example, when Kane kisses her, she does slap him... but within moments she determines that she overreacted and becomes immensely concerned about how she will be able to maintain her relationship with him.

How did you feel about Carly? Did she have any real faults that I may have missed?
She can be a Mary Sue all she wants. My personal issue is the example she sets for young girls. Her message seems to be "find a deranged guy, try to fix him, and if you don't succeed it means you are not good enough", or even worse: if you accept any kind of behavior, people will love you.
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Post by SurroundedByBooks »

I agree I was less interested in Carly as a character. Even in Carly’s POV we’re mostly hearing about Adam.

But imagine having Dauma as your mother! I can’t imagine her accepting anything less than perfection from her daughter. She’d be drumming it into her that her life depends on it.

Although even then it was her mistake that led to her father’s capture.
“You know, for kids!”
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Post by Nym182 »

corinaelena wrote: 13 Feb 2020, 06:54
Nym182 wrote: 06 Feb 2020, 10:48 Personally I found Carly to be a boring character.

Not only does she have no character development, but she seems to be perfect at everything and everyone loves her instantly... whether it is Adam, Kane or the Descendants that the meet... In fact, Adam almost instantly becomes a better person (and he was very dark at the beginning of the story) and credits this to Carly. Meaning, she is able to erase years of incestuous thoughts and knock him off his psychopathic track within a week or so of their meeting.

I believe her to be a Mary Sue, which is a character defined as "a type of female character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses."

Other definitions include Mary Sue's having " powers and part of an impeccable bloodline".

I also found it vexing that whenever she is thrown into drama or has someone do her wrong, she immediately forgives them and expresses an unrealistic level of understanding. For example, when Kane kisses her, she does slap him... but within moments she determines that she overreacted and becomes immensely concerned about how she will be able to maintain her relationship with him.

How did you feel about Carly? Did she have any real faults that I may have missed?
She can be a Mary Sue all she wants. My personal issue is the example she sets for young girls. Her message seems to be "find a deranged guy, try to fix him, and if you don't succeed it means you are not good enough", or even worse: if you accept any kind of behavior, people will love you.
Yes, that is definately the wrong message to send to kids trying to figure out romantic relationships!
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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Post by Nym182 »

Waldorf wrote: 13 Feb 2020, 07:43 I agree I was less interested in Carly as a character. Even in Carly’s POV we’re mostly hearing about Adam.

But imagine having Dauma as your mother! I can’t imagine her accepting anything less than perfection from her daughter. She’d be drumming it into her that her life depends on it.

Although even then it was her mistake that led to her father’s capture.
I could not imagine the pressure of having Dauma as a mother! Too much pressure!
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Post by nfdoughe »

Carly was hard to understand as a character at times. The strangest thing I found about her was her willingness to put the Den behind them and not even ask Adam about it or Terry. She's supposedly this superbly moral character, but those are clear wrongs she doesn't even try to right. I guess she doesn't want to rock the boat? She decides to trust in the person Adam is becoming completely and just ignore the past. Not the most realistic.

I feel like she's meant to be a strong character, but she lacks a real personality for me. One thing I thought of for that is how she was raised. She says her parents were very strict with her and she had no friends in her small town where she spent all her life and everyone knows each other (seems impossible to me but that's something else). Obviously, her mother expected her to be very mature. As someone raised rather strictly with those expectations, once you have a bit of freedom, you realize you don't know who you are. It could explain her lack of personality.

However, not to be rude, but I don't see the author putting all that psychology into it. So it does seem to come back to a Mary Sue character type which is disappointing.
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Post by Jezebelle84 »

I think the author was too focused on Adam to really develop Carly. She served her purpose in Adam's development and that was about it.
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Post by cristinaro »

I guess it's logical for Carly to turn into a Mary Sue considering that we can only see her through her own eyes and through Adam's eyes and he is in love with her, and thus, highly subjective.
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Post by Nym182 »

Howlan wrote: 13 Feb 2020, 01:18
Nym182 wrote: 12 Feb 2020, 09:05
Amy747 wrote: 12 Feb 2020, 08:00 I agree with the fact that Carly was annoyingly perfect. However, it did remind me of real people ive known, who always were somehow adored by everyone they met.
It drove me crazy! Even the fact that she was a vegetarian annoyed after awhile... idk if the author was trying to create a good role model or something, but it really alienated her for me. I've known people like that as well, but all that serves is making the reader feel bad about themselves if they don't feel so perfect.
I do not think Carly was too perfect she had her flaws. One being her too emotional, and if we take her relationship with Adam in question, she far too many flaws.
Usually, a Mary Sue will have some kind of superficial flaws such as "being bad at math" or "being clumsy", this being the author's attempt to humanize them a bit...Perhaps this is Carly's? I don't recall her being too emotional, would you be able to provide some examples?

You do make an excellent point about her relationship with Adam though!
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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