Carly - Mary Sue?

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Nym182
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Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Post by Nym182 »

Howlan wrote: 13 Feb 2020, 01:19
Nym182 wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 12:27
Salma_asa wrote: 11 Feb 2020, 08:59 Yeah! Carly is a nearly perfect character. However she does have some flaws. I think she indulges kane's feelings towards her. If she took matter in seriously beforehand, kane could avoid this heartbreak.
She seemed to rush judgment when she planned vikki's kidnapping.
those are true points.

However, after the whole Kane thing happened, she immediately felt bad about it and that issue got resolved very quickly and with pretty much no drama. Considering these are highschoolers, that doesn't seem likely.

I also think she enjoyed the Vikki interrogation a little too much... But keep in mind, she has been running from Vikki's family for years so I guess I could kinda understand her judgement.
Yes she apologised to Kane as she did not want to lose him as a friend as he is one of the people closest to her in the world of humans.
The thing that bothers me about this is not that she felt bad, it's the time frame she came to forgive him... which was almost instantly. These are highschoolers and highschoolers are notorious for having big emotions and out of control hormones. If something like this had happened to me, even a slightly older me, I know I wouldn't have forgiven him so quickly. I don't think I know any highschooler, in my past or now, that would have handled "drama" with such grace and understanding. The author really missed an opportunity to draw out the suspense and drama between her, Kane and Adam. Even Adam forgave him and was ok with Carly persuing/maintaining a relationship AFTER seeing his memories and knowing he is in love with her.

If my husband had a female best friend that kissed him, that I knew had feelings for him, I wouldn't be inviting her to dinner like Adam and Carly do!
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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Post by Nym182 »

Howlan wrote: 13 Feb 2020, 01:22
Nym182 wrote: 06 Feb 2020, 13:52
Howlan wrote: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14 About Carly fixing Adam, I think that she did not fix him per se. Adam felt attracted to her and thus he felt that he could develop affection to a person besides his mother, which made him feel more normal than he thought himself to be. I think that fixed Adam and not Carly.
But still, that type of "development" in that short of time isn't realistic. I think that time of change can only be achieved over years of therapy... not by getting a crush on the new girl.
Yes, if you consider in an actual real world. In this fantasy setup, Adam finally got to know the reason he was attracted to his mother, and Carly was one of the people who accepted him for what he was, so it is definitely possible.
Fantasy worlds can be more forgiving, but that doesn't mean anything is fair game. I might agree that Carly "accepting" him (which is a whole other problematic issue) for what he did to Terry/feelings for Jo could be a START of the process, but he just did a complete turn around from who he was at the beginning of the book. Even in a fantasy world, I wouldn't believe in that kind of character development.

I also think that is very dangerous to promote. Highschoolers may not be able to make the distinction that this is a fantasy world. People shouldn't feel that they have the power to almost instantly change a kidnapper/intended raper/psychopath just by "accepting them". That kind of thinking could get someone hurt or killed.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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nfdoughe wrote: 14 Feb 2020, 11:03 Carly was hard to understand as a character at times. The strangest thing I found about her was her willingness to put the Den behind them and not even ask Adam about it or Terry. She's supposedly this superbly moral character, but those are clear wrongs she doesn't even try to right. I guess she doesn't want to rock the boat? She decides to trust in the person Adam is becoming completely and just ignore the past. Not the most realistic.

I feel like she's meant to be a strong character, but she lacks a real personality for me. One thing I thought of for that is how she was raised. She says her parents were very strict with her and she had no friends in her small town where she spent all her life and everyone knows each other (seems impossible to me but that's something else). Obviously, her mother expected her to be very mature. As someone raised rather strictly with those expectations, once you have a bit of freedom, you realize you don't know who you are. It could explain her lack of personality.

However, not to be rude, but I don't see the author putting all that psychology into it. So it does seem to come back to a Mary Sue character type which is disappointing.

You make a really interesting point! I totally forgot that she's a vegetarian... That's an obscure detail but coupled with her forgiveness of Adam's Den is quite strange! (to say the least!)

And you are right, digging deeper into Carly's upbringing may explain some aspects of her, but again it's a missed opportunity by the author. She could have delved deeper into how the way she was raised caused some social short comings in Carly... but yeah... she didn't and Carly is just the perfect student, friend, girlfriend, niece etc etc
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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Jezebelle84 wrote: 14 Feb 2020, 14:36 I think the author was too focused on Adam to really develop Carly. She served her purpose in Adam's development and that was about it.
This is a really weak move, in my opinion, considering that Carly is supposed to be a main character!
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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cristinaro wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 07:03 I guess it's logical for Carly to turn into a Mary Sue considering that we can only see her through her own eyes and through Adam's eyes and he is in love with her, and thus, highly subjective.
That is a very good point!

However, there are a lot of scenes that the reader sees things through Carly's eyes, such as her and her relationship with her Aunt Vera. She's the perfect daughter/niece. She doesn't yell down the hall, she makes her aunt wish she had a daughter, she prays with her, she does the dishes, she's just so gosh darn considerate of other people's feelings... It's like she is straight out of the Cleaver family. It's too cheesy for me, especially in juxtaposition to Adam... I know there are people like that, but even they aren't that perfect.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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Post by Howlan »

nfdoughe wrote: 14 Feb 2020, 11:03 Carly was hard to understand as a character at times. The strangest thing I found about her was her willingness to put the Den behind them and not even ask Adam about it or Terry. She's supposedly this superbly moral character, but those are clear wrongs she doesn't even try to right. I guess she doesn't want to rock the boat? She decides to trust in the person Adam is becoming completely and just ignore the past. Not the most realistic.

I feel like she's meant to be a strong character, but she lacks a real personality for me. One thing I thought of for that is how she was raised. She says her parents were very strict with her and she had no friends in her small town where she spent all her life and everyone knows each other (seems impossible to me but that's something else). Obviously, her mother expected her to be very mature. As someone raised rather strictly with those expectations, once you have a bit of freedom, you realize you don't know who you are. It could explain her lack of personality.

However, not to be rude, but I don't see the author putting all that psychology into it. So it does seem to come back to a Mary Sue character type which is disappointing.
Yes, I was definitely surprised Adam as a teenager did not have any moral repercussions due to the death of Terry.
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Nym182 wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 10:15
cristinaro wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 07:03 I guess it's logical for Carly to turn into a Mary Sue considering that we can only see her through her own eyes and through Adam's eyes and he is in love with her, and thus, highly subjective.
That is a very good point!

However, there are a lot of scenes that the reader sees things through Carly's eyes, such as her and her relationship with her Aunt Vera. She's the perfect daughter/niece. She doesn't yell down the hall, she makes her aunt wish she had a daughter, she prays with her, she does the dishes, she's just so gosh darn considerate of other people's feelings... It's like she is straight out of the Cleaver family. It's too cheesy for me, especially in juxtaposition to Adam... I know there are people like that, but even they aren't that perfect.
She definitely is a contrast to what Adam is and that was what is defined by million lights Adam sees in Carly. However, we have seen her break down under emotional stress the same as her mother Dauma.
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For the records, Carly was my best character in the story. It's not easy to be in a relationship with someone with so much darkness in him. But she was able to influence Adam to be a better person.

Additionally, this is a Sci-fi book. The authors in this genre enjoy the liberty of creating near-perfect characters.
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Post by Nym182 »

Howlan wrote: 17 Feb 2020, 02:20
Nym182 wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 10:15
cristinaro wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 07:03 I guess it's logical for Carly to turn into a Mary Sue considering that we can only see her through her own eyes and through Adam's eyes and he is in love with her, and thus, highly subjective.
That is a very good point!

However, there are a lot of scenes that the reader sees things through Carly's eyes, such as her and her relationship with her Aunt Vera. She's the perfect daughter/niece. She doesn't yell down the hall, she makes her aunt wish she had a daughter, she prays with her, she does the dishes, she's just so gosh darn considerate of other people's feelings... It's like she is straight out of the Cleaver family. It's too cheesy for me, especially in juxtaposition to Adam... I know there are people like that, but even they aren't that perfect.
She definitely is a contrast to what Adam is and that was what is defined by million lights Adam sees in Carly. However, we have seen her break down under emotional stress the same as her mother Dauma.
Which is a valid point... I just don't feel like that was enough of a fault to offset her other overwhelmingly perfectness.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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That_Reviewer wrote: 17 Feb 2020, 03:57 For the records, Carly was my best character in the story. It's not easy to be in a relationship with someone with so much darkness in him. But she was able to influence Adam to be a better person.

Additionally, this is a Sci-fi book. The authors in this genre enjoy the liberty of creating near-perfect characters.
Being a sci-fi book doesn't make the creation of "near-perfect" characters less boring or acceptable. "Sci-fi" has more to do with the storyline/characters/setting/themes that are based on scientific facts (real or imaginary). I don't think to have powers like that also creates perfect characters... in fact, I would say just the opposite. FOr example, look at the X-men. They also have powers that separate them from "normal" human beings and they are rife with character flaws.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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That_Reviewer wrote: 17 Feb 2020, 03:57 For the records, Carly was my best character in the story. It's not easy to be in a relationship with someone with so much darkness in him. But she was able to influence Adam to be a better person.

Additionally, this is a Sci-fi book. The authors in this genre enjoy the liberty of creating near-perfect characters.
Oh and the fact that Adam kidnapped, intended to rape/torture Terry and had a hand in her death shouldn't be something that Carly should overlook.
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Post by Howlan »

Nym182 wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 10:51
That_Reviewer wrote: 17 Feb 2020, 03:57 For the records, Carly was my best character in the story. It's not easy to be in a relationship with someone with so much darkness in him. But she was able to influence Adam to be a better person.

Additionally, this is a Sci-fi book. The authors in this genre enjoy the liberty of creating near-perfect characters.
Being a sci-fi book doesn't make the creation of "near-perfect" characters less boring or acceptable. "Sci-fi" has more to do with the storyline/characters/setting/themes that are based on scientific facts (real or imaginary). I don't think to have powers like that also creates perfect characters... in fact, I would say just the opposite. FOr example, look at the X-men. They also have powers that separate them from "normal" human beings and they are rife with character flaws.
Yes I found this story having similar to X men too.
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gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:14 Funny you should mention this! I actually though Adam was more of a Mary Sue character in this story, but just a testosterone, male version.

He's a loner type who hates people, and yet he's super popular and everyone thinks he's amazing. No matter how horribly he treated people in his life, people are like "oh, that's okay." They get to Afarax and even though everyone has special powers, HIS special powers are EXTRA special. Bleh. I really disliked him as a character, ever since he basically murdered Terry.

I'm still waiting for that poor girl to be brought to justice, because apparently no one cared that she went missing, and Carly was entirely unphased by the fact that he confessed to kidnapping her with chloroform, almost raping her, and facilitating her death?

Yeah, okay. That's realistic.
I totally agree! I felt both of them be Mary Sue type characters, but Adam especially. I'm glad you brought up Terry, because it felt so unrealistic that Carly would be so nonchalant about it. Terry is also rarely mentioned at all except for the two scenes, which felt strange given that it was such a horrible thing that happened to her.
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Post by diamonnd »

Nym182 wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 10:40
Howlan wrote: 17 Feb 2020, 02:20
Nym182 wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 10:15

That is a very good point!

However, there are a lot of scenes that the reader sees things through Carly's eyes, such as her and her relationship with her Aunt Vera. She's the perfect daughter/niece. She doesn't yell down the hall, she makes her aunt wish she had a daughter, she prays with her, she does the dishes, she's just so gosh darn considerate of other people's feelings... It's like she is straight out of the Cleaver family. It's too cheesy for me, especially in juxtaposition to Adam... I know there are people like that, but even they aren't that perfect.
She definitely is a contrast to what Adam is and that was what is defined by million lights Adam sees in Carly. However, we have seen her break down under emotional stress the same as her mother Dauma.
Which is a valid point... I just don't feel like that was enough of a fault to offset her other overwhelmingly perfectness.
I agree. It wasn't even so much a fault as it was a natural human reaction. Carly has the occasional rare emotional breakdown and that is the only time we see her react to a situation in a semi-realistic way. Any normal person, super powers or not, would have broken down more often than the one or two times Carly did, especially with everything she was dealing with.
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Post by Nym182 »

diamonnd wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 16:06
Nym182 wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 10:40
Howlan wrote: 17 Feb 2020, 02:20

She definitely is a contrast to what Adam is and that was what is defined by million lights Adam sees in Carly. However, we have seen her break down under emotional stress the same as her mother Dauma.
Which is a valid point... I just don't feel like that was enough of a fault to offset her other overwhelmingly perfectness.
I agree. It wasn't even so much a fault as it was a natural human reaction. Carly has the occasional rare emotional breakdown and that is the only time we see her react to a situation in a semi-realistic way. Any normal person, super powers or not, would have broken down more often than the one or two times Carly did, especially with everything she was dealing with.
you expressed yourself excellently! And made some really good points! Thanks!
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!” HST
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