Carly - Mary Sue?

Use this forum to discuss the February 2020 Book of the month, "Opaque" by Calix Leigh-Reign
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gilliansisley
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Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Post by gilliansisley »

diamonnd wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 16:01
gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:14 Funny you should mention this! I actually though Adam was more of a Mary Sue character in this story, but just a testosterone, male version.

He's a loner type who hates people, and yet he's super popular and everyone thinks he's amazing. No matter how horribly he treated people in his life, people are like "oh, that's okay." They get to Afarax and even though everyone has special powers, HIS special powers are EXTRA special. Bleh. I really disliked him as a character, ever since he basically murdered Terry.

I'm still waiting for that poor girl to be brought to justice, because apparently no one cared that she went missing, and Carly was entirely unphased by the fact that he confessed to kidnapping her with chloroform, almost raping her, and facilitating her death?

Yeah, okay. That's realistic.
I totally agree! I felt both of them be Mary Sue type characters, but Adam especially. I'm glad you brought up Terry, because it felt so unrealistic that Carly would be so nonchalant about it. Terry is also rarely mentioned at all except for the two scenes, which felt strange given that it was such a horrible thing that happened to her.
The whole Terry thing is just so bizarre! She's just like a little blip or inconvenience on the radar of the Mary Sue characters, so no need to mention her too much! She's not important, obviously. Her death was an unfortunate "oopies" in the grand scheme of this entirely messed up and unrealistic story!
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Post by sursangeet_2000 »

I agree, Carly does seem perfect. But I have seen and experienced many such people in my life, who have the capacity to be as perfect as Carly. This is a subjective opinion and is bound to change with every person. And sometimes when you see someone so good, you want to emulate them. I think thats what happened to Adam. But we will just have to agree to disagree on tgis one, I guess.
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sursangeet_2000 wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 10:48 I agree, Carly does seem perfect. But I have seen and experienced many such people in my life, who have the capacity to be as perfect as Carly. This is a subjective opinion and is bound to change with every person. And sometimes when you see someone so good, you want to emulate them. I think thats what happened to Adam. But we will just have to agree to disagree on tgis one, I guess.
Yeah,I get what you are saying I just ended up finding her boring because of it... I also tend to find those people in real life borning too haha
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Post by Howlan »

sursangeet_2000 wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 10:48 I agree, Carly does seem perfect. But I have seen and experienced many such people in my life, who have the capacity to be as perfect as Carly. This is a subjective opinion and is bound to change with every person. And sometimes when you see someone so good, you want to emulate them. I think thats what happened to Adam. But we will just have to agree to disagree on tgis one, I guess.
I think the thing for Adam which helped him was that he had another person to trust in. That changes his way of seeing things around and he changed as a result.
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Post by Katie Canedy »

Mary Sue is a great description of her, but I do not think that this is a bad thing. She sees the best in everyone, which is great in a book such as this one given the darkness surrounding it. With that being said, I believe that all of us need a "Mary Sue" in our lives. :)
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Post by CherylTegan7 »

Some people are just genuinely good and have very few moments where they waiver or do something questionable. Love is powerful and many see it as the only thing that can change absolute monsters into whatever good or decent person they may have been before something changed them. But, as a reader, it's not very interesting if the character doesn't struggle or grow or overcome much. It doesn't read realistically and can be very predictable. She may have been written this way on purpose, but it does make the read less powerful.
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Post by Howlan »

Katie Canedy wrote: 22 Feb 2020, 19:13 Mary Sue is a great description of her, but I do not think that this is a bad thing. She sees the best in everyone, which is great in a book such as this one given the darkness surrounding it. With that being said, I believe that all of us need a "Mary Sue" in our lives. :)
A great point. Personally I don't mind her being all perfect either. Seeing Adam I think her character was a great inclusion. And she also loses focus now and then.
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Post by Howlan »

CherylTegan7 wrote: 22 Feb 2020, 20:31 Some people are just genuinely good and have very few moments where they waiver or do something questionable. Love is powerful and many see it as the only thing that can change absolute monsters into whatever good or decent person they may have been before something changed them. But, as a reader, it's not very interesting if the character doesn't struggle or grow or overcome much. It doesn't read realistically and can be very predictable. She may have been written this way on purpose, but it does make the read less powerful.
Yes, I don't mind about changing people. The only thing that bothers me in this book is that Adam does not face any consequence to his actions. That is what should be changed.
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Post by Nym182 »

Howlan wrote: 20 Feb 2020, 11:39
sursangeet_2000 wrote: 19 Feb 2020, 10:48 I agree, Carly does seem perfect. But I have seen and experienced many such people in my life, who have the capacity to be as perfect as Carly. This is a subjective opinion and is bound to change with every person. And sometimes when you see someone so good, you want to emulate them. I think thats what happened to Adam. But we will just have to agree to disagree on tgis one, I guess.
I think the thing for Adam which helped him was that he had another person to trust in. That changes his way of seeing things around and he changed as a result.
I still think that kinda turn around is unbelievable... even if it is a fantasy/sci-fi book haha
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Post by Nym182 »

Katie Canedy wrote: 22 Feb 2020, 19:13 Mary Sue is a great description of her, but I do not think that this is a bad thing. She sees the best in everyone, which is great in a book such as this one given the darkness surrounding it. With that being said, I believe that all of us need a "Mary Sue" in our lives. :)
That's a really positive way to look at it! I think the main concern with a Mary Sue (in my opinion at least) is that it's kinda boring and unrelatable character and fewer readers will feel able to relate to her/him.
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Post by Nym182 »

CherylTegan7 wrote: 22 Feb 2020, 20:31 Some people are just genuinely good and have very few moments where they waiver or do something questionable. Love is powerful and many see it as the only thing that can change absolute monsters into whatever good or decent person they may have been before something changed them. But, as a reader, it's not very interesting if the character doesn't struggle or grow or overcome much. It doesn't read realistically and can be very predictable. She may have been written this way on purpose, but it does make the read less powerful.
yeah, you make a good point... there are people who are really "perfect" but yeah, they can quickly become boring... And yeah, love is powerful and I can help people change, but in this instance, I think it was pretty far fetched to have Carly change Adam that quickly... especially since they never even talk about the Den...
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Post by arigray9 »

gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:14 Funny you should mention this! I actually though Adam was more of a Mary Sue character in this story, but just a testosterone, male version.

He's a loner type who hates people, and yet he's super popular and everyone thinks he's amazing. No matter how horribly he treated people in his life, people are like "oh, that's okay." They get to Afarax and even though everyone has special powers, HIS special powers are EXTRA special. Bleh. I really disliked him as a character, ever since he basically murdered Terry.

I'm still waiting for that poor girl to be brought to justice, because apparently no one cared that she went missing, and Carly was entirely unphased by the fact that he confessed to kidnapping her with chloroform, almost raping her, and facilitating her death?

Yeah, okay. That's realistic.
I never thought of Adam as a Mary Sue, but since you mentioned it, it seems so clear. I honestly don’t love his character development, and I agree it’s not realistic for people to like him because he’s essentially a rude loner. I initially liked Carly, but after seeing her apathy towards what happened with Terry, she’s mediocre at best. I don’t understand how someone so seemingly morally upstanding could possibly condone this behavior. It’s almost as if she perceived it as normal and not something to be disgusted by, something no real person would ever think of something so terrible. One could argue they’re both Mary Sues in different ways, but whatever the case, I personally am not a big fan of their characterization.
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She wanted to have sex with Adam but he did not, but Adam kidnap another girl to have sex with her and she died and she was still missing. Carly did not have any questions about it she just burns down the building even though she saw the pictures of Adams's mother and the sex tools. She did not want to upset his good side. And by setting on top of Kane to watch Tv. and by not sitting in another seat and telling him not to put his arms around her. She said that she did not want to do anything, because she did not want to upset him. I think she wanted him to kiss her. Because Adam had told her that Kane thought he was in love with her and she should have asked him if it was true, and said you know we are just friends right and made it clear before he came to have dinner at her house.
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Post by DameCelete »

gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:14 I'm still waiting for that poor girl to be brought to justice, because apparently no one cared that she went missing, and Carly was entirely unphased by the fact that he confessed to kidnapping her with chloroform, almost raping her, and facilitating her death?
A thousand times YES! It's like the author completely forgot Adam did this. The "redemption" arc felt cheap when this was dismissed or forgotten rather than dealt with.

If there is a difference between Mary Sue and Manic Pixie Dream Girl, I'd put Carly as the latter. She isn't 100% perfect, but she's 100% perfect for Adam, and her mistakes/flaws enable him - Gary Stu? I almost felt she apologized more to him than he did to anybody else. All his flaws ended up being validated in his twisted ideology. Like, he was actually superior because he was more than human. His unhealthy love toward his mother wasn't his fault (and she returned it).

But that's a rant for another forum.
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Post by gilliansisley »

DameCelete wrote: 01 Mar 2020, 05:32
gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:14 I'm still waiting for that poor girl to be brought to justice, because apparently no one cared that she went missing, and Carly was entirely unphased by the fact that he confessed to kidnapping her with chloroform, almost raping her, and facilitating her death?
A thousand times YES! It's like the author completely forgot Adam did this. The "redemption" arc felt cheap when this was dismissed or forgotten rather than dealt with.

If there is a difference between Mary Sue and Manic Pixie Dream Girl, I'd put Carly as the latter. She isn't 100% perfect, but she's 100% perfect for Adam, and her mistakes/flaws enable him - Gary Stu? I almost felt she apologized more to him than he did to anybody else. All his flaws ended up being validated in his twisted ideology. Like, he was actually superior because he was more than human. His unhealthy love toward his mother wasn't his fault (and she returned it).

But that's a rant for another forum.
Yesss! It was like she worshiped the ground he walked on, and it made me so incredibly angry. He was a piece of sh*te. He was emotionally abusive and a giant man-child and a true psychopath. It made me so angry that Carly excused all of his disturbing behaviour, despite how disgusting it was.
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