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Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 06 Feb 2020, 10:48
by Nym182
Personally I found Carly to be a boring character.

Not only does she have no character development, but she seems to be perfect at everything and everyone loves her instantly... whether it is Adam, Kane or the Descendants that the meet... In fact, Adam almost instantly becomes a better person (and he was very dark at the beginning of the story) and credits this to Carly. Meaning, she is able to erase years of incestuous thoughts and knock him off his psychopathic track within a week or so of their meeting.

I believe her to be a Mary Sue, which is a character defined as "a type of female character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses."

Other definitions include Mary Sue's having " powers and part of an impeccable bloodline".

I also found it vexing that whenever she is thrown into drama or has someone do her wrong, she immediately forgives them and expresses an unrealistic level of understanding. For example, when Kane kisses her, she does slap him... but within moments she determines that she overreacted and becomes immensely concerned about how she will be able to maintain her relationship with him.

How did you feel about Carly? Did she have any real faults that I may have missed?

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14
by Howlan
About Carly fixing Adam, I think that she did not fix him per se. Adam felt attracted to her and thus he felt that he could develop affection to a person besides his mother, which made him feel more normal than he thought himself to be. I think that fixed Adam and not Carly.

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 06 Feb 2020, 13:52
by Nym182
Howlan wrote: 06 Feb 2020, 13:14 About Carly fixing Adam, I think that she did not fix him per se. Adam felt attracted to her and thus he felt that he could develop affection to a person besides his mother, which made him feel more normal than he thought himself to be. I think that fixed Adam and not Carly.
But still, that type of "development" in that short of time isn't realistic. I think that time of change can only be achieved over years of therapy... not by getting a crush on the new girl.

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 07 Feb 2020, 14:14
by gilliansisley
Funny you should mention this! I actually though Adam was more of a Mary Sue character in this story, but just a testosterone, male version.

He's a loner type who hates people, and yet he's super popular and everyone thinks he's amazing. No matter how horribly he treated people in his life, people are like "oh, that's okay." They get to Afarax and even though everyone has special powers, HIS special powers are EXTRA special. Bleh. I really disliked him as a character, ever since he basically murdered Terry.

I'm still waiting for that poor girl to be brought to justice, because apparently no one cared that she went missing, and Carly was entirely unphased by the fact that he confessed to kidnapping her with chloroform, almost raping her, and facilitating her death?

Yeah, okay. That's realistic.

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 07 Feb 2020, 17:27
by B Creech
Carly did seem to bring out the best in everyone she met. And she was definitely very tolerant of others. As for Adam, he continued to express feelings for Joanne for a while after he and Carly became an item. His feelings waned over time (granted, over very little time) as he became more and more enthralled with Carly. He still had his shack with pictures of Joanne all over the walls and ceiling, and he still visited it after he and Carly were seeing each other until she burned it down! Maybe he was just pretending to be a better person to impress her and her influence finally got through!

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 07 Feb 2020, 20:39
by Nym182
B Creech wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 17:27 Carly did seem to bring out the best in everyone she met. And she was definitely very tolerant of others. As for Adam, he continued to express feelings for Joanne for a while after he and Carly became an item. His feelings waned over time (granted, over very little time) as he became more and more enthralled with Carly. He still had his shack with pictures of Joanne all over the walls and ceiling, and he still visited it after he and Carly were seeing each other until she burned it down! Maybe he was just pretending to be a better person to impress her and her influence finally got through!

I see where you are going with that, and I think you are on the right track... I just think this book accomplishes this very clumsily... but it bothers me that even though Adam kidnapped and planned on raping Terry, which resulted in her death... all in the den with the shrine of his mother... which Carly saw and burned down... this triggers them becoming closer... it’s such a strange sequence of events. And a little unbelievable that Carly would just be ok with it all... she doesn’t even seem that concerned! “He deserves a fresh start. She intends to grant him one and he’ll stop rebelling against the good inside of himself.” Carly burning down the den symbolizes her “burning out” the evil in him... afterwards she says “she can’t place a halo over her own head while attaching horns to his” and justifies this forgiveness as “well he didn’t know he has powers, so he gets a pass.”

And that’s the story of how perfect Carly “saved” evil Adam 🙄

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 07 Feb 2020, 21:12
by ciecheesemeister
I found most of the characters two-dimensional. Except for Adam's dad, they were all impossibly good-looking. It felt like I was watching a Disney channel high school movie where everyone was played by a better looking than average person in their twenties. There wasn't a blemished face in sight, nobody was chunky or extremely thin, nobody was short or remarkably tall. The author may have meant this as hyperbole, but it didn't seem as if they were going for a humorous takedown of a stereotypical sitcom.
Carly was a Mary Sue, and Adam was something of a dark Gary Stu. He was impossibly perfect as well once redeemed from his inappropriate thoughts about Jo.

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 07 Feb 2020, 23:42
by Nym182
ciecheesemeister wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 21:12 I found most of the characters two-dimensional. Except for Adam's dad, they were all impossibly good-looking. It felt like I was watching a Disney channel high school movie where everyone was played by a better looking than average person in their twenties. There wasn't a blemished face in sight, nobody was chunky or extremely thin, nobody was short or remarkably tall. The author may have meant this as hyperbole, but it didn't seem as if they were going for a humorous takedown of a stereotypical sitcom.
Carly was a Mary Sue, and Adam was something of a dark Gary Stu. He was impossibly perfect as well once redeemed from his inappropriate thoughts about Jo.
I could not have said it better myself!!!

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 08 Feb 2020, 06:52
by B Creech
Nym182 wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 20:39
B Creech wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 17:27 Carly did seem to bring out the best in everyone she met. And she was definitely very tolerant of others. As for Adam, he continued to express feelings for Joanne for a while after he and Carly became an item. His feelings waned over time (granted, over very little time) as he became more and more enthralled with Carly. He still had his shack with pictures of Joanne all over the walls and ceiling, and he still visited it after he and Carly were seeing each other until she burned it down! Maybe he was just pretending to be a better person to impress her and her influence finally got through!

I see where you are going with that, and I think you are on the right track... I just think this book accomplishes this very clumsily... but it bothers me that even though Adam kidnapped and planned on raping Terry, which resulted in her death... all in the den with the shrine of his mother... which Carly saw and burned down... this triggers them becoming closer... it’s such a strange sequence of events. And a little unbelievable that Carly would just be ok with it all... she doesn’t even seem that concerned! “He deserves a fresh start. She intends to grant him one and he’ll stop rebelling against the good inside of himself.” Carly burning down the den symbolizes her “burning out” the evil in him... afterwards she says “she can’t place a halo over her own head while attaching horns to his” and justifies this forgiveness as “well he didn’t know he has powers, so he gets a pass.”

And that’s the story of how perfect Carly “saved” evil Adam 🙄
That's a great analogy! I agree it is a strange sequence of events. A missing person is a big deal, but it was really just a passing thought in the book. It was brought to the surface, Carly found out about it by visiting the 'den'...and burning it down...and she and Adam never discussed it. The last thing said about Terry was "they never found the body." I expected Carly to at least mention it to Adam but they just moved on like it was just a hiccup in their relationship! I like your symbol that burning down the den was "burning out" the evil in him! :)

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 08 Feb 2020, 11:16
by Nym182
B Creech wrote: 08 Feb 2020, 06:52
Nym182 wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 20:39
B Creech wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 17:27 Carly did seem to bring out the best in everyone she met. And she was definitely very tolerant of others. As for Adam, he continued to express feelings for Joanne for a while after he and Carly became an item. His feelings waned over time (granted, over very little time) as he became more and more enthralled with Carly. He still had his shack with pictures of Joanne all over the walls and ceiling, and he still visited it after he and Carly were seeing each other until she burned it down! Maybe he was just pretending to be a better person to impress her and her influence finally got through!

I see where you are going with that, and I think you are on the right track... I just think this book accomplishes this very clumsily... but it bothers me that even though Adam kidnapped and planned on raping Terry, which resulted in her death... all in the den with the shrine of his mother... which Carly saw and burned down... this triggers them becoming closer... it’s such a strange sequence of events. And a little unbelievable that Carly would just be ok with it all... she doesn’t even seem that concerned! “He deserves a fresh start. She intends to grant him one and he’ll stop rebelling against the good inside of himself.” Carly burning down the den symbolizes her “burning out” the evil in him... afterwards she says “she can’t place a halo over her own head while attaching horns to his” and justifies this forgiveness as “well he didn’t know he has powers, so he gets a pass.”

And that’s the story of how perfect Carly “saved” evil Adam 🙄
That's a great analogy! I agree it is a strange sequence of events. A missing person is a big deal, but it was really just a passing thought in the book. It was brought to the surface, Carly found out about it by visiting the 'den'...and burning it down...and she and Adam never discussed it. The last thing said about Terry was "they never found the body." I expected Carly to at least mention it to Adam but they just moved on like it was just a hiccup in their relationship! I like your symbol that burning down the den was "burning out" the evil in him! :)

Thank you! I didn't even realize how well it fit until I was typing it haha :tiphat:

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 08 Feb 2020, 12:22
by Nym182
gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:14 Funny you should mention this! I actually though Adam was more of a Mary Sue character in this story, but just a testosterone, male version.

He's a loner type who hates people, and yet he's super popular and everyone thinks he's amazing. No matter how horribly he treated people in his life, people are like "oh, that's okay." They get to Afarax and even though everyone has special powers, HIS special powers are EXTRA special. Bleh. I really disliked him as a character, ever since he basically murdered Terry.

I'm still waiting for that poor girl to be brought to justice, because apparently no one cared that she went missing, and Carly was entirely unphased by the fact that he confessed to kidnapping her with chloroform, almost raping her, and facilitating her death?

Yeah, okay. That's realistic.
You make an excellent point! Is there a term for two Mary/Gary Sues in a relationship? He definitely did not deserve all the praise and affection from everyone else. They were both put on such a pedestal by their peers.

It's ok what he did to Terry... he didn't know he had superpowers! He gets this one, but if he does again, he will get a stern talking to. OK time to burn down his den/shrine dedicated to his mom... he deserves a fresh start but also won't talk about it... at all.

And that's a relationship model everyone should try to emulate. When you are in love, nothing else matter :roll2: :roll2: :roll2:

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 09 Feb 2020, 12:58
by gilliansisley
Nym182 wrote: 08 Feb 2020, 12:22
gilliansisley wrote: 07 Feb 2020, 14:14 Funny you should mention this! I actually though Adam was more of a Mary Sue character in this story, but just a testosterone, male version.

He's a loner type who hates people, and yet he's super popular and everyone thinks he's amazing. No matter how horribly he treated people in his life, people are like "oh, that's okay." They get to Afarax and even though everyone has special powers, HIS special powers are EXTRA special. Bleh. I really disliked him as a character, ever since he basically murdered Terry.

I'm still waiting for that poor girl to be brought to justice, because apparently no one cared that she went missing, and Carly was entirely unphased by the fact that he confessed to kidnapping her with chloroform, almost raping her, and facilitating her death?

Yeah, okay. That's realistic.
You make an excellent point! Is there a term for two Mary/Gary Sues in a relationship? He definitely did not deserve all the praise and affection from everyone else. They were both put on such a pedestal by their peers.

It's ok what he did to Terry... he didn't know he had superpowers! He gets this one, but if he does again, he will get a stern talking to. OK time to burn down his den/shrine dedicated to his mom... he deserves a fresh start but also won't talk about it... at all.

And that's a relationship model everyone should try to emulate. When you are in love, nothing else matter :roll2: :roll2: :roll2:
Exactly! And that's the scary thing too, because this story perpetuates some really disturbing beliefs in our world today.

1. Women are assaulted, both sexually and physically, every day. So what's the big deal? Forget about them.

2. The young men who attack women have just made a really horrible mistake, and for that reason we shouldn't ruin their entire lives with a harsh punishment! A slap on the wrist and a finger wag will do just fine.

This is equally damaging to young female readers (unhealthy relationships) as it is to young men, showing them that there aren't real consequences for acting on their desires despite consent.

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 10 Feb 2020, 15:51
by Jocelyn Eastman
On some level, I can understand why Carly would have failed to call attention to the murder. The less attention to herself and anyone around her, the better. She is in hiding.

But where it gets to Mary Sue-Ness for me is when she is not only characterized as she is, but she is also the most powerful.

I didn’t really know what a Mary Sue was until I read this.

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 10 Feb 2020, 17:00
by Nym182
Jocelyn Eastman wrote: 10 Feb 2020, 15:51 On some level, I can understand why Carly would have failed to call attention to the murder. The less attention to herself and anyone around her, the better. She is in hiding.

But where it gets to Mary Sue-Ness for me is when she is not only characterized as she is, but she is also the most powerful.

I didn’t really know what a Mary Sue was until I read this.
You know, that is a good point! I didn't even think about how that would have complicated her hiding! Thanks for adding that extra layer to my thinking!!

And you are also right, one of the characteristics of a Mary Sue is that they normally possess great power... it's not even that she has powers, she just so happens to be the strongest... and can heal people... and now has her mother's imense powers/knowledge as well!

Re: Carly - Mary Sue?

Posted: 11 Feb 2020, 08:59
by Salma_asa
Yeah! Carly is a nearly perfect character. However she does have some flaws. I think she indulges kane's feelings towards her. If she took matter in seriously beforehand, kane could avoid this heartbreak.
She seemed to rush judgment when she planned vikki's kidnapping.