Vicki - Victim or Deserves it?

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Nym182
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Vicki - Victim or Deserves it?

Post by Nym182 »

One of the most unsettling scenes in this book was when Dauma, Carly and Adam interrogate Vicki.

Dauma and Carly downright seem to enjoy it (which is offputting and doesn't seem to fit Carly's nature) and Adam just watches them torture her, mentally and physically.

Now, obviously Vicki/Katareena is a protagonist, but I do think that she is horribly misunderstood and did not deserve this treatment from the "good guys".

She lost her mother at a young age and her father turns her into what she is. He tells her she's looking for "a child who possessed evil powers". On top of that, she was instructed to "watch and wait". By her perspective, she is doing good and thinks she's saving the world. She later tells Adam that she never knew what her father was doing nor what the serum she drank was.

On top of the physical torture both Carly and Dauma perform on her, both using their powers and physical means, they mentally torture her as well by telling her that her father "must not care if you live or die". Then once they push her to her breaking point and she passes out after Dauma punctures her neck with her thumbs... Carly heals her.

To me, that is abhorrent behavior for the "good guys" of this book to display.

Yes, Vicki's family is part of the Iksha and yes, they have done terribly things... but as far as we know Vicki hasn't hurt anyone. She was just following her father's orders, which is doesn't sound too different from Carly...

Do you think what has happened to Vicki is fair? Did Dauma, Carly, and Adam go too far?
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Post by Howlan »

Of course, it was not fair at all. She is mostly innocent if whatever he got to know about her is true. But in terms of Carly and Dauma, they really needed information about their father, so they did what they could. Sure it's quite unbelievable for Carly for torturing her, but the previous experience of her with an Iksha spy might have been replaying in her mind which led to her father's capture. Also, Daruma might have a better way to deal with it as she is a biokinetic, but she was also distraught by her husband's capture and she knew what his fate is going to be if he was not rescued soon.
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Post by B Creech »

I think what Dauma, Carly, and Adam did to Vikki was definitely over the top. To kidnap her and question her was one thing, but I agree that she was only doing what her father instructed her to do. She was not a physical threat to them personally, she was just to find out who had special powers and report it to her father.
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Post by OfficialEmma »

What they did wasn't fair. Vicki thought she was doing the right thing, and they, on the other hand were just being desperate, and desperation can cause one to go overboard.
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Post by Nym182 »

Howlan wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 13:45 Of course, it was not fair at all. She is mostly innocent if whatever he got to know about her is true. But in terms of Carly and Dauma, they really needed information about their father, so they did what they could. Sure it's quite unbelievable for Carly for torturing her, but the previous experience of her with an Iksha spy might have been replaying in her mind which led to her father's capture. Also, Daruma might have a better way to deal with it as she is a biokinetic, but she was also distraught by her husband's capture and she knew what his fate is going to be if he was not rescued soon.
I agree with you on this one... Obviously they were acting on raw emotions, but it did bother me when Dauma started in on her she said that she's just going to assume Vicki is lying no matter what she says. What's the point? At that point, it's just torture.
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Post by Nym182 »

B Creech wrote: 16 Feb 2020, 19:51 I think what Dauma, Carly, and Adam did to Vikki was definitely over the top. To kidnap her and question her was one thing, but I agree that she was only doing what her father instructed her to do. She was not a physical threat to them personally, she was just to find out who had special powers and report it to her father.
Exactly! Both parties think that they are doing what is right, and who knows, the Descendants may have done terrible things to the Iksha as well! We just don't know both sides of the story.
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Post by Nym182 »

OfficialEmma wrote: 17 Feb 2020, 04:08 What they did wasn't fair. Vicki thought she was doing the right thing, and they, on the other hand were just being desperate, and desperation can cause one to go overboard.
I also thought it was crazy for Dauma to state that she's not going to believe anything she says... especially since Vicki didn't exactly hold back the truth and what she was doing!
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Post by esp1975 »

I think this just represents another way this is very much a young adult book and not an adult book. The way Vicki is treated is very much a teenager fantasy for being able to deal with an evil peer, the mean girl. In an adult book, we would have had to deal with not just the action but the emotional reaction from making that choice. And it absolutely is a big deal.
And I think it will feel even more squicky over the rest of the series when Vicki develops Stockholm Syndrome and comes to see her captors as "right" and wants to help them against her father. (I haven't read the next book, this is just my suspicion of what will happen in her character arc.)
But it is obvious that we as a reader are never really meant to see Vicki as a whole person. We never get in her POV, no matter how many POV jumps we have. She is a plot device given a name and nothing more. And so, by that standard, we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

I gave the book a good review. I did enjoy it, but there were plenty of things that bothered me. This is actually one of the weakest points of the book.
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Post by OfficialEmma »

Nym182 wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 10:26
OfficialEmma wrote: 17 Feb 2020, 04:08 What they did wasn't fair. Vicki thought she was doing the right thing, and they, on the other hand were just being desperate, and desperation can cause one to go overboard.
I also thought it was crazy for Dauma to state that she's not going to believe anything she says... especially since Vicki didn't exactly hold back the truth and what she was doing!
That showed that Vicki's intentions were unbiased. Dauma saying that was kind of frustrating.
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Post by Nym182 »

OfficialEmma wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 13:33
Nym182 wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 10:26
OfficialEmma wrote: 17 Feb 2020, 04:08 What they did wasn't fair. Vicki thought she was doing the right thing, and they, on the other hand were just being desperate, and desperation can cause one to go overboard.
I also thought it was crazy for Dauma to state that she's not going to believe anything she says... especially since Vicki didn't exactly hold back the truth and what she was doing!
That showed that Vicki's intentions were unbiased. Dauma saying that was kind of frustrating.
Just call a spade a spade... If Dauma and Carly want to torture someone, then just have that scene be that... not sure torture wearing an "interrogation" disguise.
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Post by B Creech »

Nym182 wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 10:25
B Creech wrote: 16 Feb 2020, 19:51 I think what Dauma, Carly, and Adam did to Vikki was definitely over the top. To kidnap her and question her was one thing, but I agree that she was only doing what her father instructed her to do. She was not a physical threat to them personally, she was just to find out who had special powers and report it to her father.
Exactly! Both parties think that they are doing what is right, and who knows, the Descendants may have done terrible things to the Iksha as well! We just don't know both sides of the story.
Very true! Maybe the next book in the series will answer some of those questions! :techie-studyinggray:
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Post by Nym182 »

B Creech wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 13:59
Nym182 wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 10:25
B Creech wrote: 16 Feb 2020, 19:51 I think what Dauma, Carly, and Adam did to Vikki was definitely over the top. To kidnap her and question her was one thing, but I agree that she was only doing what her father instructed her to do. She was not a physical threat to them personally, she was just to find out who had special powers and report it to her father.
Exactly! Both parties think that they are doing what is right, and who knows, the Descendants may have done terrible things to the Iksha as well! We just don't know both sides of the story.
Very true! Maybe the next book in the series will answer some of those questions! :techie-studyinggray:
Maybe... but will I read the next book to find out haha
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Post by Howlan »

Nym182 wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 10:23
Howlan wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 13:45 Of course, it was not fair at all. She is mostly innocent if whatever he got to know about her is true. But in terms of Carly and Dauma, they really needed information about their father, so they did what they could. Sure it's quite unbelievable for Carly for torturing her, but the previous experience of her with an Iksha spy might have been replaying in her mind which led to her father's capture. Also, Daruma might have a better way to deal with it as she is a biokinetic, but she was also distraught by her husband's capture and she knew what his fate is going to be if he was not rescued soon.
I agree with you on this one... Obviously they were acting on raw emotions, but it did bother me when Dauma started in on her she said that she's just going to assume Vicki is lying no matter what she says. What's the point? At that point, it's just torture.
Yes, and since Dauma has biokinetic powers it should be easy for her to establish truth form lie. She did not need to go that far.
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Post by Nym182 »

Howlan wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 15:45
Nym182 wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 10:23
Howlan wrote: 15 Feb 2020, 13:45 Of course, it was not fair at all. She is mostly innocent if whatever he got to know about her is true. But in terms of Carly and Dauma, they really needed information about their father, so they did what they could. Sure it's quite unbelievable for Carly for torturing her, but the previous experience of her with an Iksha spy might have been replaying in her mind which led to her father's capture. Also, Daruma might have a better way to deal with it as she is a biokinetic, but she was also distraught by her husband's capture and she knew what his fate is going to be if he was not rescued soon.
I agree with you on this one... Obviously they were acting on raw emotions, but it did bother me when Dauma started in on her she said that she's just going to assume Vicki is lying no matter what she says. What's the point? At that point, it's just torture.
Yes, and since Dauma has biokinetic powers it should be easy for her to establish truth form lie. She did not need to go that far.
You know, I don't think I ever picked up on that detail haha That makes what Dauma said even more outrageous
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Post by B Creech »

Nym182 wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 15:04
B Creech wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 13:59
Nym182 wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 10:25

Exactly! Both parties think that they are doing what is right, and who knows, the Descendants may have done terrible things to the Iksha as well! We just don't know both sides of the story.
Very true! Maybe the next book in the series will answer some of those questions! :techie-studyinggray:
Maybe... but will I read the next book to find out haha
Hahaha! I know what you mean!
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