OnlineBookClub.org

I just finished reading the twilight saga yesterday (so the “just”actually doesn’t count as I have spend another 26 hours hovering around the books and online videos) and I was very interested in knowing what I thought of Edward and Jacob and why I would choose one over the other.
Eclipse by far is my favourite in the series as it was very strong emotionally and brought out shades in the characters that seemed very human (for Edward too) and left you loads to think about. Though “Breaking Dawn” pretty much made it black and white and all perfect with everything balanced out (not that I am complaining about it- loved the end) I want to talk about Eclipse and what to think about a few things.
Firstly, can I person be in love with two people at the same time? The whole “ I have two soul mates” and “if there was probably no magical world Jacob would be the right one for me” kinda made me dislike Bella a bit. But if one probed about it a little longer, I would say, probably there is a way to love two people at the same time for two very different reasons- here the reasons are laid out pretty clearly- Jacob and Edward are like “fire and ice” different yet complimentary.
By the end of the book I was and still am totally “Team Edward” (probably he is my kind of guy or maybe my guy is that way) but I couldn’t help but think more on this. Though I am trying to stick to the fantasy world here, this draws get parallel in our real lives. What is it that makes Bella like Edward so much? And what is it that makes her like Jacob? And most crucial of all, how can she like Jacob at the end of Eclipse when she’s already spent so much time with Edward? (I am okay with her liking Jacob in new moon, but Eclipse? That made it kinda cheating for me.)
My first answer to all of this was, falling in love is probably not that hard. When you spend time with someone long enough, especially with someone with whom you can connect- the fondness pretty much grows. Bella did lead Jacob on, but would you hold that up against her? Her guy left her and was never coming back. In the process, she met someone who was super fun, caring , easy going, loveable, warm and at the same time made no efforts to hide his love for her. The confidence a character like Jacob radiates is almost as enduring as the physical attraction for Edward. That made me think- was the love for Edward real love or pure fantasy? What did she know about Edward before dreaming about him? She was dazzled by his looks, his feel and as the book goes along it turns out that loads of vampires in their human life died simply because they were equally dazzled. So was that really love? Jacob said it himself “he’s your drug”- an addiction, something you cannot live without because you are addicted to how it makes you feel. Luckily for her, that love grew to be a lot more than just plain attraction. (I often find myself forgetting that attraction is very important in love as well. Physical attraction definitely plays a role but when it’s the only thing or the main thing- it could falter. Guess ugly people keep forgetting that beauty is important, outside as well!:P)
Back to the old question- Why did Bella love Jacob? Honestly, what’s not there to love about him? and she met him at a point in her life where she truly needed him around- he was her only way to heal.
But did Bella really love Jacob? Initially I thought it was more of a confusion. Since there is nothing wrong with character like Jacob (infact he makes life easier to live and of course you can’t ignore the fact that you have to be a lot less careful around him-even physically) there is no way to not like him. I thought it was liking with a little which wa more than mere friendship mixed with the sympathy you felt when you broke the heart of someone like that. At the same time, for all that time that Edward had gone, he was hers. He loved her and cared for her and I believe that was the real reason to have him. Like she had a hold on his life and din’t want to let go of that love.
And then why do I like Edward? Firstly, he’s beautiful and a hardcore romantic. His love requires great personal sacrifice and testing in every which way possible and he manages it all. His protection, his passion, his madness in addition to his mystery and the way he can make Bella feel make him a charmer for me. To be able to sit in a tent and let a boy hold your girl and still be okay with it takes some strength. He has it in him to kill but won’t. He has all the reasons to feel confident but he isn’t smug. He has everything yet in front of bella he feels like he’s a nothing. I just find it more pure, more deep and something I can connect to. Plus though Jacob is fun, I just find Edward classier..
In case of Edward, it’s the love of a boyfriend with a shade of a fatherly protective,cautious love to it. In case of Jacob, it’s the love of a boy wherein you feel like the older one and your love takes a shade of a motherly love as well.
I find great solace in Stephanie’s words “love has many shades and you can’t love two people in the same way though you can love a few at once”
At the end of the day, I think with love it’s the pure commitment, the loyalty and the underlying fact that I may always get someone better but this is a choice I have made knowing that I want no better that truly keeps it going. I am glad Bella chose Edward. It just seems very right 
Few other things I thought of:
I guess in case of Human beings- feelings are so volatile and dynamic and that they can change quite dramatically with time. Probably because we are programmed to just adjust to our surroundings. And if that’s the case why do we stick to one person alone? Maybe that’s where commitment, loyalty, will and determination come in. Yes Bella was broken and probably a part of her always would be but I do think Jacob could have gotten her back on track if Edward had not returned. Am glad he did though. Probably that’s what he means when he said “I left you broken and Jacob stitched you back. Guess those stitches just don’t go away that easily”. Amazing Edward actually understood it.
In case of a vampire, they are so fixed in their ways of “life” that when something in them changes, it’s very clear and very permanent. Maybe that’s why Bella didn’t feel the same love for Jacob when she changed into a vampire. Edward and her love was kinda like imprinting in a way- magical and impossible to let go and you can see Jacob becoming a bit Edwardish in his love for Nessie. Not that jacob’s love for Bella was not true but the imprinting kind of love seems something like you can’t get away from which is probably why it’s magical and too non-human to exist in our lives.

I know a lot of people on these forums totally despise the Twilight series and Stephanie Meyers writing....but, I read the series last year in time before Eclipse came out in the movies. It was a book series like no other I've ever read that literally swept me away into the story and characters! I totally understand the hype! Now, this was not a series I thought I would ever read - c'mon vampires? My sister-in-law and a friend of mine encouraged me to just read the first book Twilight. I was hooked!
@ Atinosh, I think you summed it up very well. I like your interesting view on the relationship with Edward was more of a protected, fatherly type. And, with Jacob, Bella was more motherly. Either way, both were exciting to read about and nice to watch on-screen! Isn't reading supposed to be fun and enjoyable? It sure was with this series for me.

Totally agree with you!

I do believe that Stephanie's writing skills definitely could improve.. Every other line has "and he's voice broke at the last word" or "lump in my throat".. Just got very typical in the style.

But the development of the characters is amazing! Totally agree on that way!

And reading is fun.. no matter what kind... always brings out something you never knew existed! Enjoy it while it lasts

I lose hope for humanity whenever I see feeble attempts to portray twilight as literary feat and attribute intellectual themes to a story which states only heavily media hyped superficialities and would have us believe that ones physical traits are the pinnacle of human worth, as the topic author so sickly condones. Despite what you and the countless others may believe, romance(aka sex) is not the meaning of life, and physical traits are utterly insignificant when compared to things far more important.

haha... i never said "twilight" epitomized literature..

But u know, there is always something to take from everything. And if you can call a spade a spade and see what it's worth and respect it for it, den uve got it right..

what i feel even more saddening is someone vomiting the oxford dictionary to condemn ppl.. wish they'd use their talent at spell bees or elsewhere..

PS: give ppl a break.. you can choose to dislike and you would have valid reasons too but there is a way to do it or a way to ignore ppl who don think the same

.. and if something like this makes u sad, i dont think you know how to live any better

@Atinosh - well said! I like your "vomiting the dictionary" statement!

@Sophius - I agree with Atinosh. If you don't agree with something, there is a better way to come across; instead of simply bashing. If you've actually read a book being spoken about, then state why or why not you liked it and I will respect that. But, if you haven't even read it and go along with the "against" masses, then hold your opinions to yourself please. You seem like you try way too hard to be a very opinionated literary snob.

For your information, I have in fact read the twilight series, and it is the reason I have embraced the philosophy "if you don't like it, you don't have to finish it."

I don't see how "vomiting The Oxford dictionary" is something one should feel ashamed of, considering that some people naturally possess a large vocabulary, as opposed to pulling terms out of their thesaurus in a transparent attempt to make themselves appear as though they possess some vestige of intelligence(as Stephanie Meyers does.), and we who do should not be forced to supress this faculty in order to accomodate those who are not predisposed with this inclination. In fact, I hardly see how I was "trying" to make myself appear as though I were a "literary snob", seeing as I wrote what I now see as a grammatical abomination at 3:30 in the morning, and as such, was half asleep.

Truth be told, I would have passed this thread up were I A.) not in a foul mood, and B.) utterly disgusted by the comment, "Guess ugly people keep forgetting that beauty is important, outside as well!". This strikes me as you clasifying yourself in a superior group, the "pretties", to use a term from that stupid kids book my classmates were obsessed with in the fifth grade, which, given your discontent with what you percieve I am attempting, is an act of sickening hypocrisy, made even more so by the fact that physical beauty is an insignifagant triviality in the grand scheme of existence. The fact of the matter is that the percieved importance of physical beauty in modern society is a product of limbic instinct and delusive megalomania, and, were the furtherment and evolution of our species a prime concern, as it should be, an overt emphasis on physical beauty and sexual fulfillment would ultimately be reduced to what it actually is, a medium for minor recreational pleasure.

And by the way, people who actually possess the talent you so blatantly condemn have better things to do then enter spelling bees( or things like it), which are utterly pointless exhibitions meant to increase a a bad institution's repute.

One more thing, if you want to be taken a bit more seriously, I suggest eliminating your use of silly acronyms and take the time to spell things correctly. A solitary error is understandable, but doing it over and over again on elementary words is just irritating.

I liked Eclipse the best too. I was in love with Twilight for a couple of months when I read them at the start of the year. I dreamed about having that one person I couldn't live without and that person not being able to live without me(this was at a time when my own marriage was not at all going well). As I came away from the Team Edward fantasy, and put some different perspective on the whole thing(and my marriage started getting better) I really thought the idea of having that drug addiction, magnetic, "he's holding me here on this earth" type love was really not that great. I think it sucks that they have to imprint etc. I think the best relationship comes out of a blossoming friendship - which is what Bella and Jacob had. Love is a choice so I can understand where Jacob and Leah come from when suddenly the people they love and have chosen to love out of their free will have suddenly no control over their lovelife as a result of imprinting etc. I'm definetly Team Jacob now, I'd rather love someone that I had chosen to love rather than having a love that completely clouded my view of the real world, unable to see that there is actually more to life than just that one person.

I found your opinions really interesting @Astonish, I also liked your views of Edward as fatherly to Bella and Bella motherly to Jacob.

@ Simworm:

What do you think of this?

I believe it exists in the human world too. I believe it is the realization that this person is right for me, which by default makes all the other loves you had before seem less or wrong. It is the act of realizing that compromise is needed in the relationship to keep peace, not in the heart to feel love. When you settle for less, which Jaxob would have been if Bella had chosen to stay with him, you feel like you didnt get what you deserved at some level. The way Edwards world is Bella and Bella's Edward - Jaob deserved that love too... Imprinting I believe, is merely the act of realizing that someone you wanted to be with, was not best for you, was not chosen for you. Someone you were destined to be with, will come with the full blown realization, that they were in fact meant to be yours. This case is much more clear with Leah, Emily and Sam. Leah is stuck because she refuses to let life take its course and let Sam go but Sam knew Emily was the one and vice versa, so the apology they feel is only for the hurt that Leah feels, not the love they feel.


My sister's explanation to imprinting from another perspective.. She's all for love blossoming from friendship too.. I guess its just more sustainable..

@Sophius

Are you sure you weren't pulling words from a dictionary? Do you seriously talk that way? And do people wait to comprehend it (just cause they are as amused as I am or are simply polite) or do they walk past you?

Anyway, point about spellings noted. I write short useless acronyms only when I know it's not worth spending time spelling it out. But seems like it pushes your temper a few notches up and so I'll be kind enough to take out time for spelling this out..

Since it's also clear that we have totally swayed away from the topic and purpose of the post, I will just play along here.. here it goes:

Firstly, while you know every word that exists do you know how to read and understand them when put together in a sentence? The ugly comment did not mean I am pretty- infact it just meant the opposite! If anything, you should be telling me "why do you find yourself ugly!".Please go back and read the context rather than give me a talk on how the media has brain washed my concepts of true beauty..

Secondly,if you din't think the book was worth finishing, which again I state is okay to believe so, I do think it puts you in a superficial stance where you judge before truly knowing. I can't believe you would give up because you thought it was worthless and then talk like you're in Shakespeare's era and condescend every other opinion mankind has.. If anything it's a lesson I should learn from you.."don't continue posts when they are getting useless..."

Every person has their own style of writing.. You don't need to have a boastful vocabulary to make a point. Words are a medium to exhibit intellect but without the latter they stand to be "vomited". Stephanie may not suit your style, she may not be the best writer, heck she may not be any good at all, but that does not mean she can't/won't/shouldnt write. I think she did a fairly decent job by the end of it and I was glad she admitted that she could do better. But I have to give it to her for making the characters grow so beautifully..

Lastly, it's just hilarious that you go on forum that asks nothing of your opinion on a book, read a whole big post, boast that "you have infact read it" and admit not finishing it and then keep ranting pointless babbles for god alone knows what reason.. You Sophius definitely, should not write a book...

Atinosh wrote:@ Simworm:

What do you think of this?

I believe it exists in the human world too. I believe it is the realization that this person is right for me, which by default makes all the other loves you had before seem less or wrong. It is the act of realizing that compromise is needed in the relationship to keep peace, not in the heart to feel love. When you settle for less, which Jaxob would have been if Bella had chosen to stay with him, you feel like you didnt get what you deserved at some level. The way Edwards world is Bella and Bella's Edward - Jaob deserved that love too... Imprinting I believe, is merely the act of realizing that someone you wanted to be with, was not best for you, was not chosen for you. Someone you were destined to be with, will come with the full blown realization, that they were in fact meant to be yours. This case is much more clear with Leah, Emily and Sam. Leah is stuck because she refuses to let life take its course and let Sam go but Sam knew Emily was the one and vice versa, so the apology they feel is only for the hurt that Leah feels, not the love they feel.


My sister's explanation to imprinting from another perspective.. She's all for love blossoming from friendship too.. I guess its just more sustainable..

Yes, I believe there is some truth in what you have said. I believe you shouldn't settle for less and in a way when she had found Edward her love for Jacob would have been seen as less. In some ways I do like how they(Bella and Edward) were magnetised towards each other, as in she was destined for either this life with Edward or death, as it seems fate wanted... What I didn't like, was that they were magnets to each other in a way that they couldn't see clearly anymore. The fact that they absolutely couldn't function without each other is not an ideal for me. I believe it is better to have a love that does in fact share your world, you make each other stronger but you have lives outside of the romance. I think this is what Bella could have had if she had chosen Jacob. Edward was like Bella's god and she was Edward's god if you think about the devotion they had to each other. Jacob would have been more like her teammate in life. They could have grown old together etc. When you think about it that way, choosing Jacob would not have meant settling. It would have been a healthier path for living a happy human life. With Edward, she had to be sucked in to the the fantasy, including becoming a vampire which meant together Bella and Edward were stuck in the same place for all eternity, never moving forward. I have to admit that it sometimes sounds nice to have someone like Edward and I do like the way the story played out in a way which it makes it seem everything that happened was their destiny. Eg, the reason why Jacob was drawn to Bella that whole time was because of Renesme whom he was destined to imprint on - quite an interesting twist! I believe though that Jacob and Bella would have been a much better model of a good and healthy relationship. Of course, it wouldn't have made the book very interesting as in fairy tale land we all want to choose fantasy

Atinosh wrote: @Sophius

Are you sure you weren't pulling words from a dictionary? Do you seriously talk that way? And do people wait to comprehend it (just cause they are as amused as I am or are simply polite) or do they walk past you?

Anyway, point about spellings noted. I write short useless acronyms only when I know it's not worth spending time spelling it out. But seems like it pushes your temper a few notches up and so I'll be kind enough to take out time for spelling this out..

Since it's also clear that we have totally swayed away from the topic and purpose of the post, I will just play along here.. here it goes:

Firstly, while you know every word that exists do you know how to read and understand them when put together in a sentence? The ugly comment did not mean I am pretty- infact it just meant the opposite! If anything, you should be telling me "why do you find yourself ugly!".Please go back and read the context rather than give me a talk on how the media has brain washed my concepts of true beauty..

Secondly,if you din't think the book was worth finishing, which again I state is okay to believe so, I do think it puts you in a superficial stance where you judge before truly knowing. I can't believe you would give up because you thought it was worthless and then talk like you're in Shakespeare's era and condescend every other opinion mankind has.. If anything it's a lesson I should learn from you.."don't continue posts when they are getting useless..."

Every person has their own style of writing.. You don't need to have a boastful vocabulary to make a point. Words are a medium to exhibit intellect but without the latter they stand to be "vomited". Stephanie may not suit your style, she may not be the best writer, heck she may not be any good at all, but that does not mean she can't/won't/shouldnt write. I think she did a fairly decent job by the end of it and I was glad she admitted that she could do better. But I have to give it to her for making the characters grow so beautifully..

Lastly, it's just hilarious that you go on forum that asks nothing of your opinion on a book, read a whole big post, boast that "you have infact read it" and admit not finishing it and then keep ranting pointless babbles for god alone knows what reason.. You Sophius definitely, should not write a book...

So tell me, Atinosh, why exactly is it that you refuse to accept that I really do speak in this manner, for, though you seem to chastise me for the same thing, what I am seeing is that you are condemning me because I do not share your views; I would wager that, were I to use this language in support of your view, that you would have had no qualms about my manner of speech. So to answer your question, yes, I do in fact speak like this, and despite this fact, I refuse to supress my abilities in order to maintain the serenity and ego of those who have difficulty comprehending my speech. And when I encounter someone who does refuse to push themselves in order to understand and converse with me, I refuse to associate with them any longer.

First of all, your comment, and again I quote, "Physical attraction definitely plays a role but when it’s the only thing or the main thing- it could falter. Guess ugly people keep forgetting that beauty is important, outside as well!", you strongly suggest by the grammatical connotations, despite what you might have meant, that you view the "ugly people" as a seperate party, and in doing so, create a position where there exist two parties who are caught up in a hiearchal relationship, with "pretty" superior to "ugly". Even if you did classify yourself in the "ugly" category, which was likely a process that was not conducted until after you conciously considered you words, you still create what is, although I hate the terminology, and "us" and "they" relationship, which is the perfect enviorment for sociological tumors to fester grow. As I said, physical beauty is superficial and inconsequential in the grand scheme of existence, but, for narrow minded sex addicts, as I am increasingly coming to suspect you of being, physical beauty is the only thing that matters, with no consideration given to matters of real endeavors.

what really makes me laugh is that you hipocritically accuse me of misinterpreting a statement, yet you turn around and do the exact same thing. Yes, Twilight taught me that it is alright not to waste your time finishing bad books, but, this is because I actually finsihed the books, a fact that should become apparent if you take the time to think about my response. For someone who talks about intellect as if they believe to intimately know its annals, you seem to have forgotten the primary principal of possessing intellect, which is to say, thinking.

And, for the one comment you make in defense of the book, that is one of the biggest problems, The characters do not "grow" in the slightest. Each and every character is stereotypical, absolute, and utterly static, providing the reader with the impression that Stephanie Meyer did not so much write a story as she did wet dream. I would assume that you are familiar with te term "Mary Sue", becuase that describes every character in the book. And, her writing is far from not good, it is atrocious. She employs no sentence structure, overuses what is refferred to in writing as darlings(one term I would not expect you to know), and ditties along on completely immaculate and unecesary details. But, in all honesty, it does not surprise me that you think Stephanie Meyer is a good author, for, if you truly have difficulty understanding my posts as you stated above, I doubt you would be able to understand literay masters such as William Faulkner, James Joyce, or Salman Rushdie, who you would also likely accuse of "vomiting" the dictionary.

Blah! Not even going to read your post.. this is a waste of time.. if I put so much energy in writing, I might just get a book published myself..

Good luck in all that you do.. tada!

twilight novel and movie both are super,the narration of the book was awesome,the way director deals the movie also awesome

I have to back Sophius up here. If you took the time to read a few more of his posts around here, you'd figure out that particular style of writing / talking is just natural to him, as well as the informal style apparently you and I are used to is natural to us.

Being very smart myself, I'd say he's incredibly intelligent and wise people listen to what intelligent people have to say, even if they don't like it and even if the form of expressing the opinion could have been better.

And since I haven't read Twilight myself and the only experience (painful, I might add) was through a 30 mins of one of the movies my girlfriend was watching, I can't really judge the writing.

What I however can judge is the background and the story I've overheard over the time and let me assure you that Twilight will never ever join the classics of literary giants; Byron, Shaw, even Martin or Gaiman are a whole other level, that's just the way things are, ask any literary critic.

If you are wise and intelligent you will realise that the post was not about her writing one bit as much as it was about two characters and a plot that draws great parallel to real life scenarios (in terms of why people fall in and out of love).How did this become about the book, the movie or the writing?

All I think I did was justify my post about the characters.. Nothing otherwise

I rest my case