Human vs. ... Other

Use this forum to discuss the April 2020 Book of the month, "Project Tau" by Jude Austin
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Marion Jepkosgei
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Re: Human vs. ... Other

Post by Marion Jepkosgei »

I think we need to redefine humanity. It's not all about blood or DNA. It is more like empathy. A clone therefore is human since they are birthed from human cells. Tau in this case is human. Just because he was made in the lab and "how to" and "what to" were dictated to him doesn't make him less human. The humanity of Dennison however is questionable.
In conclusion therefore, Tau is human and humanity is about being able to read into the emotions of others and treat them like they're deserving.
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Lisa A Rayburn
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Post by Lisa A Rayburn »

Marion Jepkosgei wrote: 11 Jun 2020, 10:05 I think we need to redefine humanity. It's not all about blood or DNA. It is more like empathy. A clone therefore is human since they are birthed from human cells. Tau in this case is human. Just because he was made in the lab and "how to" and "what to" were dictated to him doesn't make him less human. The humanity of Dennison however is questionable.
In conclusion therefore, Tau is human and humanity is about being able to read into the emotions of others and treat them like they're deserving.
Interesting. That concept puts the definition of 'what is human' on a 'higher' level if you will. We've touched slightly on empathy and emotion as being part of being human, but not to this extent. You said, "it's not all about blood or DNA," and I agree. There is definitely a mental/emotional component to being identified as human. Questioning Dennison's 'humanity,' though, is a different type of 'human' than what we've talked about yet. Thanks so much for posting!

Thoughts anyone?
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Post by Hassanah »

For me, any lab created life form does not deserve a right same as humans. This are life forms that can go to the extreme without reasoning like humans hence harmful.
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Post by Onyinye Excel »

Clones are humans just that they were not reproduced by the coming together of a man and woman but who cares which way they came? What matters is that they exhibit the characteristics of a human being just like every other human being. I think they are entitled to their rights and privileges as humans.
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Post by jhunt »

They are lab creations with somewhat human emotions... very interesting dilemma and conversation.
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Post by anoushka_thakur »

I believe it is human who gave birth to these clones and they somehow are their children. Throughout the history of artificial intelligence, we have seen that negligence towards the clone has always led to a disaster. They are so capable of evolving more than humans and hence they are able to see things and interpret them in a different manner. It would be wrong for them if they are not treated the same way as humans. But that is some difference they would never realize.
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Post by Laurakish »

Yes they do deserve to be treated like human. Reminds me of Dolly the sheep, and have there been successful human cloning??? I'm a little grey on the subject . I believe the fact that they share the same genetic material with their subject, they are potentially more human than some actual beings, so yes, they are entitled to human rights.
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Post by Lisa A Rayburn »

Hassanah wrote: 11 Jun 2020, 13:08 For me, any lab created life form does not deserve a right same as humans. This are life forms that can go to the extreme without reasoning like humans hence harmful.
Interesting. What is it in the book that made you think that clones (as a group) or Tau, in particular, would 'go to the extreme without reasoning?' I grant that both Tau and Kata had the potential to cause harm, but so too do 'naturally born' humans when provoked or backed into a corner. What makes the clones different, in your opinion?

I look forward to hearing back from you! Thanks for dropping by and sharing your thoughts!
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Post by Lisa A Rayburn »

anoushka_thakur wrote: 13 Jun 2020, 00:56 I believe it is human who gave birth to these clones and they somehow are their children. Throughout the history of artificial intelligence, we have seen that negligence towards the clone has always led to a disaster. They are so capable of evolving more than humans and hence they are able to see things and interpret them in a different manner. It would be wrong for them if they are not treated the same way as humans. But that is some difference they would never realize.
Onyinye Excel wrote: 11 Jun 2020, 15:25 Clones are humans just that they were not reproduced by the coming together of a man and woman but who cares which way they came? What matters is that they exhibit the characteristics of a human being just like every other human being. I think they are entitled to their rights and privileges as humans.
Laurakish wrote: 13 Jun 2020, 02:43 Yes they do deserve to be treated like human. Reminds me of Dolly the sheep, and have there been successful human cloning??? I'm a little grey on the subject . I believe the fact that they share the same genetic material with their subject, they are potentially more human than some actual beings, so yes, they are entitled to human rights.
Anouska, I believe that you are correct in saying that a clone's ability to reason and interpret things in life is a characteristic that some either couldn't or wouldn't see. I'm familiar with some of the media that feature negligence or poor treatment of clones not ending well.

Onyinye, I agree wholeheartedly that just because clones did not come to be in a 'traditional' human manner, they are no less human than their 'naturally born' counterparts. They are, indeed, deserving of all the rights a human is entitled to. Saying they are potentially more human than some actual human beings gets into a psychological/moral area. Still, it could be that they have the potential to develop further than 'normal' humans.

Laurakish, precisely. Dolly was no less a sheep just because she had not been born 'traditionally' was she? Why would it be different with human clones? I do not believe there has been human cloning as yet. That crosses an ethical barrier concerning human experimentation. I agree that as clones share the human genome, they are therefore human and deserving of the rights afforded to humans.

Thank you all for stopping in and sharing your thoughts with us!
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Post by Lisa A Rayburn »

jhunt wrote: 12 Jun 2020, 11:45 They are lab creations with somewhat human emotions... very interesting dilemma and conversation.
They are lab creations, yes, and it is true that Tau's ability to deal with human emotion was somewhat stunted. I believe that was because he was raised in the lab, though, with no healthy social interaction. A 'normal' human child would act much the same if he/she were raised similarly. If not allowed to learn about and express emotion, how are they supposed to develop it? It is, indeed, a fascinating conundrum. Thanks for stopping in and sharing your thoughts with us!
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Post by anoushka_thakur »

Kelyn wrote: 14 Jun 2020, 17:50
anoushka_thakur wrote: 13 Jun 2020, 00:56 I believe it is human who gave birth to these clones and they somehow are their children. Throughout the history of artificial intelligence, we have seen that negligence towards the clone has always led to a disaster. They are so capable of evolving more than humans and hence they are able to see things and interpret them in a different manner. It would be wrong for them if they are not treated the same way as humans. But that is some difference they would never realize.
Onyinye Excel wrote: 11 Jun 2020, 15:25 Clones are humans just that they were not reproduced by the coming together of a man and woman but who cares which way they came? What matters is that they exhibit the characteristics of a human being just like every other human being. I think they are entitled to their rights and privileges as humans.
Laurakish wrote: 13 Jun 2020, 02:43 Yes they do deserve to be treated like human. Reminds me of Dolly the sheep, and have there been successful human cloning??? I'm a little grey on the subject . I believe the fact that they share the same genetic material with their subject, they are potentially more human than some actual beings, so yes, they are entitled to human rights.
Anouska, I believe that you are correct in saying that a clone's ability to reason and interpret things in life is a characteristic that some either couldn't or wouldn't see. I'm familiar with some of the media that feature negligence or poor treatment of clones not ending well.

Onyinye, I agree wholeheartedly that just because clones did not come to be in a 'traditional' human manner, they are no less human than their 'naturally born' counterparts. They are, indeed, deserving of all the rights a human is entitled to. Saying they are potentially more human than some actual human beings gets into a psychological/moral area. Still, it could be that they have the potential to develop further than 'normal' humans.

Laurakish, precisely. Dolly was no less a sheep just because she had not been born 'traditionally' was she? Why would it be different with human clones? I do not believe there has been human cloning as yet. That crosses an ethical barrier concerning human experimentation. I agree that as clones share the human genome, they are therefore human and deserving of the rights afforded to humans.

Thank you all for stopping in and sharing your thoughts with us!
Kelyn, your point justifies my thought. Humans are the most evolved organism in the world. But when we give rise to clones, the clone becomes more superior to us. That feeling is often unwanted and hence that results in the poor treatment of these clones, as they have the ability to evolve transcendentaly.
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Post by MissJill »

Oh I love the concept of "other-ing" and what defines humanity. Project Tau actually very much reminded me of Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishuguro because we spend much of the novel getting to see these character's personality; their humanity and thought processes, only to later find that they were clones themselves. It relates to this novel in that humanity is, at its very core, emotion. How do you feel emotion and process it and Kalin felt everything so deeply, that how could he be anything but human?
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Post by Sally_Heart »

I believe that anything that has the ability to feel should be treated well, not just humans. I mean even the animals we rear need to be treated well. The fact that something can have a choice and feelings then it becomes an entity. Objectivity might make us biased towards humans. What if we get aliens? Will we mistreat them just because that are not humans? Human mercy should not be biased towards humans alone but even other beings that exist in the same capacity as humans.
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Post by Eucaelvin123 »

I met with he nature vs nurture theory in sociology class. It sounds good to have it surfaced here again
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Post by Eucaelvin123 »

The scientificity of some of theses books can be questioned but their imaginative strength is second to none.
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