Nature vs Nuture

Use this forum to discuss the April 2020 Book of the month, "Project Tau" by Jude Austin
User avatar
Wordlessly
Posts: 303
Joined: 03 Jan 2019, 07:52
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 24
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-wordlessly.html
Latest Review: We are Voulhire: A New Arrival under Great Skies by Matthew Tysz

Re: Nature vs Nuture

Post by Wordlessly »

That's an interesting question. But I think want is a social phenomenon and in the clash of nature vs nurture, nurture will triumph. Because there is a line between need and want and wants do not manifest themselves.
User avatar
Zoe Luh
Posts: 91
Joined: 25 Apr 2020, 11:53
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 78
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-zoe-luh.html
Latest Review: Moon Magic by Charli Elizabeth

Post by Zoe Luh »

B Creech wrote: 12 Apr 2020, 08:05
funninessishappiness wrote: 11 Apr 2020, 22:52 As we all know, Tau was created in a lab. Therefore, before Kalin, everything he knew was from the lab. One of the first things that Kalin asked Tau was "What about what you want to know." This causes Tau to ponder on the meaning of want. Before Kalin ever entered the picture do you think Tau would have eventually figured out what want is? Do you think want is a human emotion that would show itself regardless of the environment? Or do you think want is more of a social phenomenon that only occurs when others show you what you don't have? To put it simply, do you think it was nature or nurture that lead to the way Tau is now?
Nature vs Nurture has always fascinated me. I like to ponder which is the most dominant in a person and I usually always lean more toward nurture. I am a believer that we are primarily a product of our environment. That being said, I believe we are all born with wants and needs, however, we are mostly taught our needs outweigh our wants. As for Tau, I think he would have continued obeying what he'd been taught instead of wondering about what he wanted because his wants were not acknowledged by the scientists. I think it was nurture that made him the way he is now due to Kalin pursuing the subject with him. :eusa-think:
I agree. Of course nature affects us to some degree, but I think our environment shapes us, our decisions and our knowledge. I don't know if Tau would have learned about want without Kalin, but if he did it wouldn't have been as quickly and certainly would've been a very different situation.
User avatar
Brenda Creech
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 3382
Joined: 09 Mar 2019, 13:34
Favorite Author: Mary Pat Ferron Caines
Favorite Book: The Reel Sisters
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 356
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-brenda-creech.html
Latest Review: Was She Crying for Me? by Jerry Hyde
fav_author_id: 253250

Post by Brenda Creech »

Zoe Luh wrote: 23 May 2020, 14:37
B Creech wrote: 12 Apr 2020, 08:05
funninessishappiness wrote: 11 Apr 2020, 22:52 As we all know, Tau was created in a lab. Therefore, before Kalin, everything he knew was from the lab. One of the first things that Kalin asked Tau was "What about what you want to know." This causes Tau to ponder on the meaning of want. Before Kalin ever entered the picture do you think Tau would have eventually figured out what want is? Do you think want is a human emotion that would show itself regardless of the environment? Or do you think want is more of a social phenomenon that only occurs when others show you what you don't have? To put it simply, do you think it was nature or nurture that lead to the way Tau is now?
Nature vs Nurture has always fascinated me. I like to ponder which is the most dominant in a person and I usually always lean more toward nurture. I am a believer that we are primarily a product of our environment. That being said, I believe we are all born with wants and needs, however, we are mostly taught our needs outweigh our wants. As for Tau, I think he would have continued obeying what he'd been taught instead of wondering about what he wanted because his wants were not acknowledged by the scientists. I think it was nurture that made him the way he is now due to Kalin pursuing the subject with him. :eusa-think:
I agree. Of course nature affects us to some degree, but I think our environment shapes us, our decisions and our knowledge. I don't know if Tau would have learned about want without Kalin, but if he did it wouldn't have been as quickly and certainly would've been a very different situation.
Yeah, I don't believe Tau would have learned about want without Kalin because he had been trained only to do as he was told. Kalin made him begin to question his situation!
B. Creech
"Like beauty in the eyes, the divinity of the rose may be in the nose that smells it, and the lover that beholds it." Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
User avatar
brown_gal
Posts: 43
Joined: 23 May 2020, 14:32
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 14

Post by brown_gal »

Nature vs. nurture has always been a debatable topic. I think nurture is more influential than nature because humans are a product of their environment. Human evolution in different climatic conditions is an example of how vital nurture is. The environment nurtured them into who they are now, just like how the scientists nurtured Tau in the wrong way. Tau didn’t raise his wants in front of the scientists because of his nurture. They never allowed him to disobey them. That made him meek and subdued to the scientists. And it’s all because of Kalin, who persued the subject with him.
User avatar
Misael Carlos
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 2458
Joined: 16 Jan 2018, 17:12
Favorite Book: The Sins of a Master Race
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 213
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-misael-carlos.html
Latest Review: Donny and Mary Grace's California Adventures by Catherine A. Pepe

Post by Misael Carlos »

All I know is that whenever we let our wants overcome us, we become greedy and sometimes evil. But when we settle and be content with our basic needs, simple things in life are appreciated greatly.
kdstrack
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 6473
Joined: 10 May 2017, 19:49
Currently Reading: The Savior
Bookshelf Size: 530
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-kdstrack.html
Latest Review: How To Be Successful by M. Curtis McCoy

Post by kdstrack »

Even before Kalin arrived, Tau had contact with the other scientists in the facility. He observed their interactions and learned from their behaviors. He had wants that were suppressed. The first time he expressed a want (something he wanted to know) - through a question - he was punished. In some of his first conversations with Kalin, he expressed his opinion that he didn't like pain (loc 881) and that he wanted to learn to read (loc. 934). He desired those things that would make him happy and free (ability to read.) Kalin nurtured the wants that were already present in Tau's personality.
User avatar
Abigail Peake
Posts: 15
Joined: 02 Jun 2020, 13:49
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 14
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-abigail-peake.html
Latest Review: Nadeems journey by Sherine Anniruth

Post by Abigail Peake »

The way you are nurtured has a significant impact on your behaviour and psychology. I believe Tau had a bigger social influence on his behaviour than a biological one
Wyzdomania_Gskillz
Posts: 125
Joined: 17 Mar 2020, 04:49
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 50
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-wyzdomania-gskillz.html
Latest Review: We are Voulhire: A New Arrival under Great Skies by Matthew Tysz

Post by Wyzdomania_Gskillz »

DragonLight877 wrote: 18 Apr 2020, 12:45
Jocelyn Eastman wrote: 13 Apr 2020, 13:05 I think it’s both. I think Tau would naturally want if it wasn’t beaten out of him in the first place. In the book, he questions Dennison but is then punished. I think that was meant to show us that there are human traits in Tau, but they are suppressed. I think those human traits are brought out again with Kata and are refined more with him around.
I hadn't thought about this actually. Tau did start asking questions, like all children do. At first I thought it was all nurture. That if Tau was never taught to think for himself, he never would. But there is always that ingrained curiosity in all of us. And that is impossible to snuff out. So I think if they are originally there, I think eventually Tau would have snapped and attacked. It may take many many years, but I think eventually Tau would have had enough.

I agree quite a lot with you.
We all come with an innate desire to figure things out and make the most of them, even babies in their really tender age exhibit this. Nurture however, gives voice and direction to these desires and make them speak out. The power of one's environment cannot be overemphasised. So for Tau it would be the same, the exposure must have sparked off his curiosity to question his status quo...
User avatar
BreathofFreshAriel
Posts: 39
Joined: 28 Feb 2020, 23:29
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 18
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-breathoffreshariel.html
Latest Review: The Survival of the Richest by Dr. Anthony M. Criniti IV

Post by BreathofFreshAriel »

Interesting question, I think it's human nature to want certain things that aren't in our immediate needs. Things like affection and bonding aren't necessarily essential, but greatly improve our quality of life and when we don't get them they wear on us. Even if Tau couldn't put into words the things he craved doesn't mean he didn't feel those things. Also, being brought up in a situation where those "non-essensials" weren't given, Tau probably unconsciously put them out of his mind until Kalin brought them to his attention.
"We don't see things how they are, we see them as we are."
- Rabbi Shemuel ben Nachmani, as quoted in the Talmudic tractate Berakhot (55b.)
User avatar
ciecheesemeister
Posts: 706
Joined: 08 May 2018, 20:44
Favorite Author: Jude Austin
Currently Reading: Homer, A Constant Companion.
Bookshelf Size: 724
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-ciecheesemeister.html
Latest Review: Wild World by Peter S. Rush
fav_author_id: 165843

Post by ciecheesemeister »

I think we all want things but sometimes we are trained that we are not allowed to want them or at least that we mustn't express our desires.
DominicVenditti
Posts: 22
Joined: 02 Apr 2020, 20:38
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 18
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-dominicvenditti.html
Latest Review: East Wind, 2nd edition by Jack Winnick

Post by DominicVenditti »

I don't think we can ever truly separate nature from nurture. If you think about it, everybody is changed in some way form their environment, but genetics always plays a role too. It only seems reasonable that each plays a part.
User avatar
evraealtana
Previous Member of the Month
Posts: 1528
Joined: 22 Mar 2019, 19:45
Currently Reading: The Signature of All Things
Bookshelf Size: 127
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-evraealtana.html
Latest Review: Never Teach A Pig to Sing. It is a waste of Time by Freida Atwood

Post by evraealtana »

An interesting question. I believe "want" is a concept that Tau would have understood even without outside education. Animals understand wanting things, don't they? They don't have to be taught how to want. Surely Tau would have been the same. But it's impossible to know exactly what traits came from where.
User avatar
QiA
Posts: 18
Joined: 08 Dec 2019, 16:42
Favorite Author: Terry Pratchett
Currently Reading: Nine Perfect Strangers
Bookshelf Size: 31
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-qia.html
Latest Review: Masters and Bastards by Christopher J. Penington
fav_author_id: 2791

Post by QiA »

funninessishappiness wrote: 11 Apr 2020, 22:52 As we all know, Tau was created in a lab. Therefore, before Kalin, everything he knew was from the lab. One of the first things that Kalin asked Tau was "What about what you want to know." This causes Tau to ponder on the meaning of want. Before Kalin ever entered the picture do you think Tau would have eventually figured out what want is? Do you think want is a human emotion that would show itself regardless of the environment? Or do you think want is more of a social phenomenon that only occurs when others show you what you don't have? To put it simply, do you think it was nature or nurture that lead to the way Tau is now?
To want something is to have certain level of self-consciousness. It could be that before Tau met Kalin, Tau was not aware of the state of "being". I think that had Tau remained forever in the lab, devoid of any real contact from outside world, then this state of lack of "want" may subsist. But given the circumstances, it would be both nature and nurture (those that Tau encountered) that led Tau to be more self-aware.
Mbrooks2518
Posts: 1617
Joined: 08 Dec 2018, 16:37
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 385
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-mbrooks2518.html
Latest Review: The Portal by Russell Cederberg

Post by Mbrooks2518 »

I think want is a natural desire, but Tau simply had no way of understanding it or expressing it until he met Kalin.
User avatar
Alexandros92
Posts: 193
Joined: 03 Mar 2019, 12:04
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 21
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-alexandros92.html
Latest Review: The Legacy of Job's Wife by Cynthia Koelker

Post by Alexandros92 »

What an interesting topic. In her book "Conscious", Annaka Harris talks about how choice/free will does not really exist. That is to say that nature and nurture are not as separate as one may think. Those two, interact all the time and it is not always clear when the one stops and the other begins. There is a very interesting lecture from the University of Stanford by Robert Sapolsky talking about this.
Post Reply

Return to “Discuss "Project Tau" by Jude Austin”