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Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 16 Apr 2020, 13:39
by jdsatosk
One of the things that really thew me for a loop in Project Tau was the scene after Kalin submits and calls himself Project Kata. Kalin remains just as sassy and difficult as ever in his dealings with the scientists, yet he now is brainwashed into thinking that he really is a Project? I think that if the scientists were able to successfully brainwash Kalin into believing he was a Project that he would also believe he should be more amenable to training. I felt that the switch from Kalin to Project Kata was a little too sudden to believe when his attitude toward the scientists remained pretty much the same. What do you think? What details from the story support your opinion?
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 16 Apr 2020, 17:35
by Brenda Creech
jdsatosk wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 13:39
One of the things that really thew me for a loop in
Project Tau was the scene after Kalin submits and calls himself Project Kata. Kalin remains just as sassy and difficult as ever in his dealings with the scientists, yet he now is brainwashed into thinking that he really is a Project? I think that if the scientists were able to successfully brainwash Kalin into believing he was a Project that he would also believe he should be more amenable to training. I felt that the switch from Kalin to Project Kata was a little too sudden to believe when his attitude toward the scientists remained pretty much the same. What do you think? What details from the story support your opinion?
I don't think he ever saw himself as Project Kata; I believe he was just trying to make the scientists believe he did. Based on the fact that he continued to try to get through to Project Tau, and never gave up on escaping, I think it was just a ploy so everyone would let down their guard.
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 17 Apr 2020, 11:17
by Chelsey Coles
B Creech wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 17:35
I don't think he ever saw himself as Project Kata; I believe he was just trying to make the scientists believe he did. Based on the fact that he continued to try to get through to Project Tau, and never gave up on escaping, I think it was just a ploy so everyone would let down their guard.
I concur. Kalin is extremely intelligent. He probably just gave up because he knew who he was and always would. As long as he knew himself on the inside, what the scientists thought didn't matter as much. He decided to play their games... or let them think he was playing. I believe this is also a form of torture. For hours, he was asked the same question over and over again. For a moment I think it gave him a bit of brain damage, and he believed he was truly a Project, especially when he discovered the process of memory implants. But not for long.
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 17 Apr 2020, 13:15
by Brenda Creech
Sinclairess wrote: ↑17 Apr 2020, 11:17
B Creech wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 17:35
I don't think he ever saw himself as Project Kata; I believe he was just trying to make the scientists believe he did. Based on the fact that he continued to try to get through to Project Tau, and never gave up on escaping, I think it was just a ploy so everyone would let down their guard.
I concur. Kalin is extremely intelligent. He probably just gave up because he knew who he was and always would. As long as he knew himself on the inside, what the scientists thought didn't matter as much. He decided to play their games... or let them think he was playing. I believe this is also a form of torture. For hours, he was asked the same question over and over again. For a moment I think it gave him a bit of brain damage, and he believed he was truly a Project, especially when he discovered the process of memory implants. But not for long.
Yes, that is a form of torture! I am anxious to read the next book and see what is happening with Tau and Kata!
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 17 Apr 2020, 13:57
by jdsatosk
I could see Kalin believing it the first time due to the exhaustion and mental torture , but wouldn't he come to his senses after a night of rest? Or it could have been Kalin capitulating to fool the scientists into believing that he knew he was a Project - like B. Creech said. However, I felt like I kept seeing Kalin believe it more and more and I think that the author wants us to believe that he believes it more and more. The author (and Kalin himself) stops calling Kalin by his name and refers to him as Project Kata in all settings - not just with the scientists. Then in the scene where Renfield brings Kalin into his office to confess he believes Kalin about who he is, Kalin takes some convincing to believe he is not actually a Project. However, I do concede that Kalin could have been holding out to make sure that Renfield was not playing mind games with him.
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 17 Apr 2020, 15:35
by vagrimes
I also think that Kalin likely gave in that first night because of sheer exhaustion and having the same question repeated to him again and again, but I agree that after that initial night the timeframe of the book made it seem like he started to believe he was Project Kata much too quickly. It makes you wonder how strong brainwashing tactics are and if they could really make someone believe their entire life wasn't real. It is also telling that the Kata needed external validation from Renfield before he started to believe himself again.
It opens up the question of brainwashing tactics used on Project Tau. We know Kalin was brainwashed, but it is on the same level if someone starts from a blank slate as Project Tai did?
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 18 Apr 2020, 08:24
by Kenesha Latoya Fowler
jdsatosk wrote: ↑17 Apr 2020, 13:57
I could see Kalin believing it the first time due to the exhaustion and mental torture , but wouldn't he come to his senses after a night of rest? Or it could have been Kalin capitulating to fool the scientists into believing that he knew he was a Project - like B. Creech said. However, I felt like I kept seeing Kalin believe it more and more and I think that the author wants us to believe that he believes it more and more. The author (and Kalin himself) stops calling Kalin by his name and refers to him as Project Kata in all settings - not just with the scientists. Then in the scene where Renfield brings Kalin into his office to confess he believes Kalin about who he is, Kalin takes some convincing to believe he is not actually a Project. However, I do concede that Kalin could have been holding out to make sure that Renfield was not playing mind games with him.
It could go both ways though, couldn't it? I mean, I didn't believe that Dennison had succeeded in converting Kalin that first time, exhausted as the young man was. He could have said it to stop the torture. But as you've rightly said, the author and Kalin himself called him Project Kata a lot as the story wore on. Not to mention the length of time he'd been in the facility for... It got to a point that I began to think that he really was changing and losing himself to the project. On the other hand, he is portrayed as a thinker, intelligent and strong-willed. So he very well could have been faking it. Maybe that scene in Renfield's office was an example of that. Or maybe it was the jolt Kalin needed to get his mind back on track. So which is it? Faking or changing? I can't help but wonder what would happen if he was locked up for longer...
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 18 Apr 2020, 12:26
by DragonLight877
So I think he did believe he was a Project. Kalin was there for well over a month by that point. And all these scientists are repeatedly telling you "You were born in a lab, you have memory implants, your just like Tau." when everyone around you is saying the same thing, you tend to believe it. As far as Kata still being angry at the scientists, that comes down to nature vs nurture. Now think of Tau as all nurture, no nature. He was easy to train to be obedient, because he didn't have a past. But Kata, he's been alive for 18 years. He has a lot of past experience that is going to effect how he acts, no matter what he believes he is. He still has 18 years of life that shaped him. He remembers what freedom is, whether he believes that freedom was real or not. Tau was born a blank slate 6 months ago.
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 21 Apr 2020, 04:21
by zhenya_reads
To me it seemed like the scientists broke him. He no longer saw any point in fighting and contradicting them. I think he just made peace with where he was and even though he knew he was originally not a project - they managed to turn him into one.
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 21 Apr 2020, 08:54
by Rachel_Emmanuel
I think the brainwashing really did a whole lot of damage on his brain, but he is intelligent i must say. He must have his own plans.
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 25 Apr 2020, 09:13
by Jajachris
I think he was brainwashed and forced to take on a new identity, he is what he is nonetheless and even science and manipulations didn't steal that from him
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 25 Apr 2020, 18:09
by BrittanyHorne2020
I feel it was made pretty clear the only reason Kalin said he was Project Kata was because he was so tired. I mean yeah he started to doubt the truth of what he believed. I do not think he ever truly believed he was always a project he just realized that whatever he was at the start after being locked up, tortured, and modified he was a different person now. Maybe not even really a person.
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 20 May 2020, 10:59
by Paige Alvarado
B Creech wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 17:35
jdsatosk wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 13:39
One of the things that really thew me for a loop in
Project Tau was the scene after Kalin submits and calls himself Project Kata. Kalin remains just as sassy and difficult as ever in his dealings with the scientists, yet he now is brainwashed into thinking that he really is a Project? I think that if the scientists were able to successfully brainwash Kalin into believing he was a Project that he would also believe he should be more amenable to training. I felt that the switch from Kalin to Project Kata was a little too sudden to believe when his attitude toward the scientists remained pretty much the same. What do you think? What details from the story support your opinion?
I don't think he ever saw himself as Project Kata; I believe he was just trying to make the scientists believe he did. Based on the fact that he continued to try to get through to Project Tau, and never gave up on escaping, I think it was just a ploy so everyone would let down their guard.
I absolutely agree. I think the entire time, Kalin was working out a plan of escape. His submission was a nice front to keep the scientists of suspecting him.
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 21 May 2020, 18:27
by Brenda Creech
pshaw1414 wrote: ↑20 May 2020, 10:59
B Creech wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 17:35
jdsatosk wrote: ↑16 Apr 2020, 13:39
One of the things that really thew me for a loop in
Project Tau was the scene after Kalin submits and calls himself Project Kata. Kalin remains just as sassy and difficult as ever in his dealings with the scientists, yet he now is brainwashed into thinking that he really is a Project? I think that if the scientists were able to successfully brainwash Kalin into believing he was a Project that he would also believe he should be more amenable to training. I felt that the switch from Kalin to Project Kata was a little too sudden to believe when his attitude toward the scientists remained pretty much the same. What do you think? What details from the story support your opinion?
I don't think he ever saw himself as Project Kata; I believe he was just trying to make the scientists believe he did. Based on the fact that he continued to try to get through to Project Tau, and never gave up on escaping, I think it was just a ploy so everyone would let down their guard.
I absolutely agree. I think the entire time, Kalin was working out a plan of escape. His submission was a nice front to keep the scientists of suspecting him.
Absolutely, and he seemed to convince the scientists!
Re: Kalin turns into Project Kata
Posted: 28 May 2020, 17:22
by kdstrack
I think Kalin was always thinking about and planning his escape. He opposed Dennison and irritated him until Dennison finally sent him to Mason - just what Kata wanted all along! He learned to manipulate the scientists. He was able to gain access to the computers and program them by feigning to be a simpleton. He let the scientists see what they wanted to see. After all, they saw the projects as "intelligent animals." At one point, Kata even says to himself, "How dumb do they think I am?" He used that presupposition to his advantage. I don't believe he ever saw himself as a project.