The First Murder
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Re: The First Murder
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It is all about choices, I think. On the one hand, we cannot entirely blame the devil for our sins because we can resist the temptations. On the other, the devil is blamed for his initial and continued plan to deceive and blind humanity into sin and rebellion just as the devil himself did to his Creator.
The "if" is difficult to direct toward a situation where the devil would not have deceived Adam and Eve because that was his personal mission. The devil is an adversary, his mission had to be possible and still is underway.
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slj3988 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2020, 07:29 There is much debate amongst the religious community over the birth of murder as a sin. My question is if the devil hadn't tricked or persuaded mankind to commit such sins, would humanity have gone a different way?
It is argued by some that we are all born with original sin. We are all capable of such monstrosity. Given that we have free will, can we fairly blame evil on an entity outside ourselves?
Very interesting question.
Well, the state of man before the devil's trickery was a perfect state. One in which though man had the power of free will, he also had the power of God's presence, fullness and provision and didn't want or need anything else.
This however was tainted the minute the female man, who did not receive the direct instruction from God not to try to gain the knowledge of good and evil, but got it from the male man, failed to understand and obey that instruction to the latter.
So yes, man had free will before the fall and could choose anything, but already had everything he could ever desire. The only reason why she made that error was a full lack of understanding of who and what she was and possessed.
The same perfection can be actualised when any man today comes to a perfect realisation of who they truly are and possess already
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I do agree with this statement. If God allows us to be tempted within our means, we therefore have free will. Without free will, we wouldn't be able to be tempted in the first place and Adam and Eve probably wouldn't have sinned in the first place. Things would be very different without that free will.Marshal mutai wrote: ↑04 Jun 2020, 01:46 My take is that God allows us to be tempted within our means. He doesn't subject us to temptations we cannot overcome. He's testing our faith and trust in Him. He allows the evil one to play a role
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I like that way of looking at it, that you choose your sin. It is true, I think. Someone can tell you what to do, bribe you, persuade you, threaten you... but it's up to you what to choose to do.Usuma Khan wrote: ↑03 Jun 2020, 10:40 The doctrine of original sin means that each human being is born into the world with an inherently selfish nature, and has to learn to love others and to love God. Original sin is a uniquely Christian doctrine. Neither Judaism nor Islam has a doctrine of original sin; in these religions, sin is personal and freely chosen. Each person is therefore responsible only for his or her own sin.
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I agree with you totally on this. Our free will is our undoing most times.Kirsi_78 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2020, 09:49 That is a very good question. Unfortunately, we'll never know the answer.
And what comes to your second question, I suppose Eve and Adam were not born with original sin, but they used their freedom of choice and as a result, everyone who's come after them is born with original sin. But even with this original sin we still have the freedom to choose what we do and what we don't do... That's what I've reasoned about this difficult topic so far.
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I totally agree with you.B Creech wrote: ↑03 Jun 2020, 17:23 I believe if Adam and Eve had never sinned humanity would have definitely gone a different way. Jesus would not have had to come to earth and die for our sins, because I don't believe we would have sinned! I believe the reason we are born with sinful tendencies is because of Adam and Eve sinning. That is just my personal opinion. We do have free will and it is our decision to make. I still tell my children, "Every day when you get up you have one of two choices to make - you can do what is right, or you can do what is wrong. If you choose to take the wrong path, don't blame God for the potholes!"
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