The First Murder

Use this forum to discuss the June 2020 Book of the month, "Killing Abel" by Michael Tieman.
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cvetelina_yovcheva87
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Re: The First Murder

Post by cvetelina_yovcheva87 »

I think that good and evil are a part of human nature. As a result of the circumstances and the environment, one of them prevails.
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Post by Sydney Nyamasoka »

That's an interesting question.

It is all about choices, I think. On the one hand, we cannot entirely blame the devil for our sins because we can resist the temptations. On the other, the devil is blamed for his initial and continued plan to deceive and blind humanity into sin and rebellion just as the devil himself did to his Creator.

The "if" is difficult to direct toward a situation where the devil would not have deceived Adam and Eve because that was his personal mission. The devil is an adversary, his mission had to be possible and still is underway.
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Post by Susmita Biswas »

I don't think that we should blame the devil for everything. Evil only use our weakness. If someone truly desires to become a person who can control his emotions and every evil though, then that person can be changed or would never attempt anything evil.
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Post by Wyzdomania_Gskillz »

slj3988 wrote: 03 Jun 2020, 07:29 There is much debate amongst the religious community over the birth of murder as a sin. My question is if the devil hadn't tricked or persuaded mankind to commit such sins, would humanity have gone a different way?

It is argued by some that we are all born with original sin. We are all capable of such monstrosity. Given that we have free will, can we fairly blame evil on an entity outside ourselves?

Very interesting question.
Well, the state of man before the devil's trickery was a perfect state. One in which though man had the power of free will, he also had the power of God's presence, fullness and provision and didn't want or need anything else.

This however was tainted the minute the female man, who did not receive the direct instruction from God not to try to gain the knowledge of good and evil, but got it from the male man, failed to understand and obey that instruction to the latter.

So yes, man had free will before the fall and could choose anything, but already had everything he could ever desire. The only reason why she made that error was a full lack of understanding of who and what she was and possessed.

The same perfection can be actualised when any man today comes to a perfect realisation of who they truly are and possess already
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Post by Jacktone Ogada »

Doing right is a choice. Doing wrong is also a choice. I think that's what being born sinful was meant to mean, since all have ability to choose wrong.
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Post by Ana-Maria-Diana »

This is a very good question that only God could answer :)) and it can be debated on and on. First of all what is a sin? Because murder is not accepted only when it is about killing another human, it is not murder when we kill animals, or plants, or the Earth. It is not murder when we kill each others spirits using words. It is acceptable when we do it to save the world/ourselves in the real world and in books/movies that involve for exemple vampires or monsters. Everything we do can be seen as a sin when we use it against each other, but is a skill when we use it to survive.
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Post by Claris L »

Marshal mutai wrote: 04 Jun 2020, 01:46 My take is that God allows us to be tempted within our means. He doesn't subject us to temptations we cannot overcome. He's testing our faith and trust in Him. He allows the evil one to play a role
I do agree with this statement. If God allows us to be tempted within our means, we therefore have free will. Without free will, we wouldn't be able to be tempted in the first place and Adam and Eve probably wouldn't have sinned in the first place. Things would be very different without that free will.
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Post by Amanda Nicole Newton »

Usuma Khan wrote: 03 Jun 2020, 10:40 The doctrine of original sin means that each human being is born into the world with an inherently selfish nature, and has to learn to love others and to love God. Original sin is a uniquely Christian doctrine. Neither Judaism nor Islam has a doctrine of original sin; in these religions, sin is personal and freely chosen. Each person is therefore responsible only for his or her own sin.
I like that way of looking at it, that you choose your sin. It is true, I think. Someone can tell you what to do, bribe you, persuade you, threaten you... but it's up to you what to choose to do.
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Post by Laura Lee »

Personally, I do not believe in "original" sin. If humans were as depraved as some Christian denominations teach, they wouldn't be able to respond to the drawing of the Holy Spirit that those same denominations teach happens.
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Post by SophiaNd »

I would say that nothing takes God unawares, not even Adam and Eve's disobedience. But it has always been God's plan for man to be Whole without blemish that was why God provided an escape for mankind in the person of Jesus Christ
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Post by ReyvrexQuestor Reyes »

Sin is a theological construct. It is conventional, and may not be natural. There are natural laws against which there is no need to deliberate any violation. For instance, by nature we are land creatures, so if we suddenly violate this natural classification, and become a water creature, nature just render you breathless under water. No arguments. So do with flying, naturally, we don't have wings, so we fall. And there are other natural laws we cannot argue against. But sin? It is theological. Crime? It is societal. Take the case of incest. It is a sin, as what the church says. But is it a crime? Yes and No, depending on the laws of the land. Society would say it is not allowable. And physically, there is no impediment to a close-relative involvement. Unlike in the "fish" example that there is a physical impediment -- not being able to breathe underwater. About murder? There are instances where it is not a crime. Even God did not punish Cain in the murder of Abel. Cain's deed was, in legal parlance, murder in the first degree. It was planned, premeditated, the elements of first-degree murder. And Cain was even protected. While there is the Lex Talionis, "ox for an ox" or "eye for an eye" but incidentally, this came only later, by the time of Moses, long after Abel's murder.
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Post by Laurina Michael Olowoniran »

Kirsi_78 wrote: 03 Jun 2020, 09:49 That is a very good question. Unfortunately, we'll never know the answer.

And what comes to your second question, I suppose Eve and Adam were not born with original sin, but they used their freedom of choice and as a result, everyone who's come after them is born with original sin. But even with this original sin we still have the freedom to choose what we do and what we don't do... That's what I've reasoned about this difficult topic so far.
I agree with you totally on this. Our free will is our undoing most times.
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Post by Guda Lydia »

I believe what the devil preyed on was free will, therefore, pursuading man to disobey God. Since we're all born and posses free will, we're always prone to sin.
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Post by Julyet_Chris »

B Creech wrote: 03 Jun 2020, 17:23 I believe if Adam and Eve had never sinned humanity would have definitely gone a different way. Jesus would not have had to come to earth and die for our sins, because I don't believe we would have sinned! I believe the reason we are born with sinful tendencies is because of Adam and Eve sinning. That is just my personal opinion. We do have free will and it is our decision to make. I still tell my children, "Every day when you get up you have one of two choices to make - you can do what is right, or you can do what is wrong. If you choose to take the wrong path, don't blame God for the potholes!"
I totally agree with you.
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Post by Edwin Amah »

Well, this might seem a little complicated to get the right answer because we never will know. But then, considering the fact that man had the option to choose between good and evil, sin I think was inevitable.
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