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Use this forum to discuss the June 2020 Book of the month, "Killing Abel" by Michael Tieman.
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Adanna Inya
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Doing the most?

Post by Adanna Inya »

This book is a thoroughly enjoyable read if you ask me. If you're a Christian, then you're conversant with the biblical versions of the different stories recorded in the book. You can easily separate fact from fiction.

However, in this book, the Godhead who is regarded as the all knowing and omnipotent was said to be limited, get worried, second guess, and have doubts. Nephilim came in from nowhere to help Noah build the ark. And the human Adam was even contemplating on the best retribution for the murder of Abel.

Did the author do too much with this in the name of fiction? Do you think that the author blasphemed? Will this book lead non Christians who don't know better astray?
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Post by tieman55 »

Adanna Inya wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 15:38 This book is a thoroughly enjoyable read if you ask me. If you're a Christian, then you're conversant with the biblical versions of the different stories recorded in the book. You can easily separate fact from fiction.

However, in this book, the Godhead who is regarded as the all knowing and omnipotent was said to be limited, get worried, second guess, and have doubts. Nephilim came in from nowhere to help Noah build the ark. And the human Adam was even contemplating on the best retribution for the murder of Abel.

Did the author do too much with this in the name of fiction? Do you think that the author blasphemed? Will this book lead non Christians who don't know better astray?
A great question that must be considered but, I think your question was lacking in one sense, You should have added this . . . "Will this book possibly lead Christians to rethink their theology? "

Is God offended by anything that was said or inferred by me in Killing Abel? I say no. (And I pray no, just in case)

Will non-Christian's somehow think less of God as they read Killing Abel? I say no and I can't find anything in Killing Abel that doesn't portray God as anything other than a loving Father.

Will both Christian and non-Christian's think about God and the obstacles He faced when He decided to be come a parent? And in doing so rethink their theology? I hope so.

I am guessing the biggest concern are the dialog's concerning the God Head where the three natures of God are discussing an issue. God the Father or Father time. God the Son, or the Life and God the Holy Spirit, which records the past for the Godhead, and informs the Others to His view of what may transpire in the future.

I believe that God, thinks, listens and learns from His creation. Now that will be blasphemy to many. But please consider the very first action that God took with Adam before you cast me aside as a heretic.

God has Adam name the Animals. Why would that be the very first thing God have had Adam to do? I propose that Adam naming the animals was not arbitrary, it was mandatory. God gave Adam free will and with that came eternal life and with that the ability to love, but God for now had withheld procreation from Adam as there was no women. But there were the animals.

Adam is naked, as he names the animals . . . and the bible tells us when a mate wasn't found God created Eve. We would not be here if Adam had become aroused when naming the animals.

I say the above without any desire to offend but many will be offended. But the Bible states the above, about as clear as it states anything. It is early in Geneses, and therefore it is foundational to Christianity yet no one knows it, so I risk saying it just so one person might hear it and think anew.

God did not know until He knew what Adam's reaction would be in naming the animals. . .

The bottom line comes down this one question. I hope if you chose to respond to this post you will answer this simple question. "If" God wanted to, does God have the ability to create Adam in a way that He would not for sure what Adam would do in naming the animals? Yes or No.

My answer is that God can do things to limit Himself, and becoming a Father did just that in a big big way!
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Post by Adanna Inya »

tieman55 wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 16:53
Adanna Inya wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 15:38 This book is a thoroughly enjoyable read if you ask me. If you're a Christian, then you're conversant with the biblical versions of the different stories recorded in the book. You can easily separate fact from fiction.

However, in this book, the Godhead who is regarded as the all knowing and omnipotent was said to be limited, get worried, second guess, and have doubts. Nephilim came in from nowhere to help Noah build the ark. And the human Adam was even contemplating on the best retribution for the murder of Abel.

Did the author do too much with this in the name of fiction? Do you think that the author blasphemed? Will this book lead non Christians who don't know better astray?
A great question that must be considered but, I think your question was lacking in one sense, You should have added this . . . "Will this book possibly lead Christians to rethink their theology? "

Is God offended by anything that was said or inferred by me in Killing Abel? I say no. (And I pray no, just in case)

Will non-Christian's somehow think less of God as they read Killing Abel? I say no and I can't find anything in Killing Abel that doesn't portray God as anything other than a loving Father.

Will both Christian and non-Christian's think about God and the obstacles He faced when He decided to be come a parent? And in doing so rethink their theology? I hope so.

I am guessing the biggest concern are the dialog's concerning the God Head where the three natures of God are discussing an issue. God the Father or Father time. God the Son, or the Life and God the Holy Spirit, which records the past for the Godhead, and informs the Others to His view of what may transpire in the future.

I believe that God, thinks, listens and learns from His creation. Now that will be blasphemy to many. But please consider the very first action that God took with Adam before you cast me aside as a heretic.

God has Adam name the Animals. Why would that be the very first thing God have had Adam to do? I propose that Adam naming the animals was not arbitrary, it was mandatory. God gave Adam free will and with that came eternal life and with that the ability to love, but God for now had withheld procreation from Adam as there was no women. But there were the animals.

Adam is naked, as he names the animals . . . and the bible tells us when a mate wasn't found God created Eve. We would not be here if Adam had become aroused when naming the animals.

I say the above without any desire to offend but many will be offended. But the Bible states the above, about as clear as it states anything. It is early in Geneses, and therefore it is foundational to Christianity yet no one knows it, so I risk saying it just so one person might hear it and think anew.

God did not know until He knew what Adam's reaction would be in naming the animals. . .

The bottom line comes down this one question. I hope if you chose to respond to this post you will answer this simple question. "If" God wanted to, does God have the ability to create Adam in a way that He would not for sure what Adam would do in naming the animals? Yes or No.

My answer is that God can do things to limit Himself, and becoming a Father did just that in a big big way!
The Bible clearly stated that he gave God gave Adam dominion over the animals. So you're right about that part. I also don't think that Adam would have been aroused by animals because he was even unaware of his nude state, same as Eve, until they ate of the forbidden tree.

After eating of the tree, their eyes opened, and this is when "I think" that they became aware of each other (sexually). So, saying that God didn't know until he knew of Adam's reaction towards the animals doesn't sit well with me. God was very aware of the naïveté of Adam and probably wanted to keep it that way, hence the warning about the tree of knowledge (I assume).

I think you should check and edit your final question, as I don't understand it. I think you're missing some words.
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Post by tieman55 »

Yes, the question is missing a word, the word "know"

"If" God wanted to, does God have the ability to create Adam in a way that He would not know for sure what Adam would do in naming the animals? Yes or No.
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Post by Adanna Inya »

tieman55 wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 19:18 Yes, the question is missing a word, the word "know"

"If" God wanted to, does God have the ability to create Adam in a way that He would not know for sure what Adam would do in naming the animals? Yes or No.
No. I don't think so. As much as God is the most powerful, I doubt that he will or can deliberately bring forth a creation whose thoughts he doesn't know. That would be a contradiction to everything that the Bible says about God, from him being all knowing to all seeing and knowing us before we were formed.

In the end, this is just my submission. Nobody knows the mind of God.
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I think the first step is for the reader appreciating that this is a fictional book based on the author's imagination. To non-believers, it may create conflicting thoughts especially if they are not well Cognizant about the Bible. This is because the Bible only provides the necessary information leaving out some other aspects that would have made it very bulk, which is unnecessary
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Post by Claude Belemu »

Adanna Inya wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 15:38 This book is a thoroughly enjoyable read if you ask me. If you're a Christian, then you're conversant with the biblical versions of the different stories recorded in the book. You can easily separate fact from fiction.

However, in this book, the Godhead who is regarded as the all knowing and omnipotent was said to be limited, get worried, second guess, and have doubts. Nephilim came in from nowhere to help Noah build the ark. And the human Adam was even contemplating on the best retribution for the murder of Abel.

Did the author do too much with this in the name of fiction? Do you think that the author blasphemed? Will this book lead non Christians who don't know better astray?
Well, even in real life, God does choose to limit his hand in situations or in the affairs of man. I think this is what the author refers to. This willful retreat by God allowing the free-will of human beings to play out. The bible does speak about God saying he regretted making Man. Is that the second-guessing you speak of? Regarding the Nephilim, they didn't come out of nowhere. They were assigned to help in that task by Meth and Lamech.

I do not think that the author did 'too much' in the name of fiction. No, he did not blaspheme as I felt he was still very respectful to the real biblical text. I think this would be a good book for 'backsliders'.
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Post by Pretty giftee »

I think the most amazing part of this book for me, is that the addition of fiction to this Bible stories, this alone triggers the urge to search the Bible in other to separate fiction from fact and this can be helpful to Christians.

The author did not blaspheme and I doubt if this book is capable of leading Christians who don't know better astray.
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Post by Adanna Inya »

Pretty giftee wrote: 18 Jun 2020, 18:41 I think the most amazing part of this book for me, is that the addition of fiction to this Bible stories, this alone triggers the urge to search the Bible in other to separate fiction from fact and this can be helpful to Christians.

The author did not blaspheme and I doubt if this book is capable of leading Christians who don't know better astray.
I value your opinions and perspectives. I'm glad that we all see the book from different angles.
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Post by Adanna Inya »

Mutai_ wrote: 18 Jun 2020, 11:47 I think the first step is for the reader appreciating that this is a fictional book based on the author's imagination. To non-believers, it may create conflicting thoughts especially if they are not well Cognizant about the Bible. This is because the Bible only provides the necessary information leaving out some other aspects that would have made it very bulk, which is unnecessary
I agree!
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Post by Adanna Inya »

Claude Belemu wrote: 18 Jun 2020, 16:05
Adanna Inya wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 15:38 This book is a thoroughly enjoyable read if you ask me. If you're a Christian, then you're conversant with the biblical versions of the different stories recorded in the book. You can easily separate fact from fiction.

However, in this book, the Godhead who is regarded as the all knowing and omnipotent was said to be limited, get worried, second guess, and have doubts. Nephilim came in from nowhere to help Noah build the ark. And the human Adam was even contemplating on the best retribution for the murder of Abel.

Did the author do too much with this in the name of fiction? Do you think that the author blasphemed? Will this book lead non Christians who don't know better astray?
Well, even in real life, God does choose to limit his hand in situations or in the affairs of man. I think this is what the author refers to. This willful retreat by God allowing the free-will of human beings to play out. The bible does speak about God saying he regretted making Man. Is that the second-guessing you speak of? Regarding the Nephilim, they didn't come out of nowhere. They were assigned to help in that task by Meth and Lamech.

I do not think that the author did 'too much' in the name of fiction. No, he did not blaspheme as I felt he was still very respectful to the real biblical text. I think this would be a good book for 'backsliders'.
Different strokes. Thank you for your contribution.
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Post by Kenesha Latoya Fowler »

Adanna Inya wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 15:38
Did the author do too much with this in the name of fiction? Do you think that the author blasphemed? Will this book lead non Christians who don't know better astray?
There are moments throughout the book which, yes, I found were a bit much. I don't think there was blasphemy, as the author did not come off as irreverent. Whether or not people will/could be led astray with this book depends a lot, I think, on the person and their knowledge of the Bible. But I do think that there is a potential danger of that.
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Post by Kenesha Latoya Fowler »

tieman55 wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 16:53
"Will this book possibly lead Christians to rethink their theology? "

Is God offended by anything that was said or inferred by me in Killing Abel? I say no. (And I pray no, just in case)
Thank you for engaging. As I've said before on other topics, I do think your story, being based on the Bible, is quite interesting. I appreciate getting to hear your thoughts here. For me, the book didn't lead me to rethink my theology or my beliefs, but it did move me to go back to my Bible to check certain things, which was not a bad thing.

Your answer to the question of whether or not God is offended by your book makes me wonder if you actually spent time in prayer asking God for guidance in writing it, or even if you should write it. Just curious.
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Post by Leen282 »

I agree with the above comments stating that this is a work of fiction. Readers should not interpret the book as a new or complete version of the Bible. I don't think that anyone should be offended by the content of the book. People can of course dislike it, or disagree, but I don't feel that the author was disrespectful or blasphemous at any point in the book.
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Post by tieman55 »

[/quote]


Your answer to the question of whether or not God is offended by your book makes me wonder if you actually spent time in prayer asking God for guidance in writing it, or even if you should write it. Just curious.
[/quote]

No, not initially. I really gave it no thought what soever, I was just writing. Latter on, at certain points, I asked God for wisdom and understanding a few times, but that is not an uncommon thing for me to do. And because of that, I never really had any sense that God really pointed me in one direction or another.

At some point, when the book was pretty much a finished product, I started to think about the ramifications of my work, "if" I had somehow or in someway had offended God with what I had written . . . than I could not share my work with others.

Of course that thought led me to prayer. As a result of prayer, I carefully went over the words that I put into God's mouth again and again, and each and every time I adjusted the words to feel extremely comfortable with those dialog s. And I also decided to add the prayer that I was making for guidance, at the end of the book.

I don't ever recall reading a biblical commentary and or a commentator who ever added a prayer to their subjective conclusions when commenting on the Bible . . . but I felt it to be obligatory!

It is without doubt risky to put words into God's mouth, and I did not take it lightly then or now!
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