The book involves only a few female characters: Is it justified?

Use this forum to discuss the October 2020 Book of the month, "We are Voulhire: A New Arrival under Great Skies" by Matthew Tysz.
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xsquare
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Re: The book involves only a few female characters: Is it justified?

Post by xsquare »

Dentarthurdent wrote: 03 Oct 2020, 06:26 I sort of feel like the whole idea of equality allows one to write from the perspective he/she is most comfortable with. There is no indication from the books that Matthew Tysz's perspective towards women is a negative one; he doesn't represent them in a pejorative way, so I'm thinking that he doesn't have a specific issue with them. Maybe he's better at writing male characters. Maybe as the story unfolds in his mind these characters he creates are more male than female.
Deciding that this is wrong would be like judging a painter for only painting subjects of one gender. Some painters prefer the male form, others the female one. Others paint according to what they are better at.
No one's suggesting that Tysz has a negative perspective towards women. Does his story lack strong female characters? Yes. Could he have arguably included more of them in a greater role? Arguably, I think also yes. Do either of these imply that he views women in a negative light? Not really.

I think there's nothing wrong with writing what you're comfortable with, but to me, the value of writing also comes from challenging yourself and thinking out of the box. If one only writes what they're comfortable with, well, the scope for improvement is limited. I feel like the reason Shakespeare is regarded as one of the greatest writers of all time stems from the versatility of his writing, but this feels like a discussion for another time and forum.

I'm not sure your painter comparison is entirely accurate – it's comparing apples to oranges. No one is saying Claude Monet is a bad painter because he specialised in landscape paintings. Likewise, if Tysz decided to specialise in, say, poetry about nature, no one's going to criticise him for not including human characters. But because he chose to write your average run of the mill (medieval) fantasy, there's the expectation that female characters will be present in a fairly equal ratio, since, you know, the gender balance has also been historically 1:1. But for every 1 female character in this book, there are 5 male characters who have much more prominent roles, not just in society but also the plot. And that's why it's so incredibly jarring to read, and I think it is valid to criticise him for that.
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AnnOgochukwu
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Post by AnnOgochukwu »

xsquare wrote: 03 Oct 2020, 12:42
AnnOgochukwu wrote: 03 Oct 2020, 05:21 I know it (the 4th book) is a long time to wait before seeing an active female character, but I think it's worth it. At least, the story doesn't loose its interesting and intriguing savour (despite the lack of active female characters). So please, I beg you to be patient (you'll love the female characters when you finally meet them, and they'll be worth the wait).
As for Beth, I'll patiently wait to see what becomes of her.
Everyone is hyping up the series, but I actually feel like the more people talk about how great it is, the more disappointed I'll be if the book doesn't actually live up to expectations! :lol2: I think part of what makes a book interesting is having a diverse cast of characters. But thank you for your words, I'm slightly more motivated to start on the third!

As for Beth, we have supposedly three more books to go (since I think 6 have been released?), but it'd be really neat if she has a great arc, especially as the oldest (surviving) chronologically introduced character.
If there's anyone who understands the dangers of hyping, I am the one. You know, I never really thought the great 'Black Panther' movie was worth all the hype it got. Quite sure, it was a good movie. But I felt it was over-hyped because it didn't meet my expectations (I saw it late, and after all the hype it got, I had sky-high expectations). However, I don't think this series is over-hyped (probably because I'm one of the chief-hypemen 😂).

As I'm currently on the 4th book, I do not know about Beth's role in the 5th and 6th books.
Live and let live, baby.
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Post by Krista Ash »

xsquare wrote: 03 Oct 2020, 12:42
AnnOgochukwu wrote: 03 Oct 2020, 05:21 I know it (the 4th book) is a long time to wait before seeing an active female character, but I think it's worth it. At least, the story doesn't loose its interesting and intriguing savour (despite the lack of active female characters). So please, I beg you to be patient (you'll love the female characters when you finally meet them, and they'll be worth the wait).
As for Beth, I'll patiently wait to see what becomes of her.
Everyone is hyping up the series, but I actually feel like the more people talk about how great it is, the more disappointed I'll be if the book doesn't actually live up to expectations! :lol2: I think part of what makes a book interesting is having a diverse cast of characters. But thank you for your words, I'm slightly more motivated to start on the third!

As for Beth, we have supposedly three more books to go (since I think 6 have been released?), but it'd be really neat if she has a great arc, especially as the oldest (surviving) chronologically introduced character.
I think Beth will have a great role in the series as it goes on. I, of course, have only read the first one, but it sets her up as someone who will be joining Lord Meldorath's trusted helpers. I suspect she'll even have a hand in helping him access the power he wants from Caromentis.
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Post by ClaZig »

This was quite a disappointment for me as well... Tysz creates such a complex social and political structure for Voulhire that I would expect a major social issue (gender equality) to be at the very least acknowledged. It's really great how the author discusses migration, economic development, and access to education, but, considering the lack of female representation in positions of power, I feel like the absence of a social movement focused on gender equality doesn't match the complexity of Voulhire's society.
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Post by Krista Ash »

ArriettyClock wrote: 03 Oct 2020, 11:26 I honestly think that there is always space to put more female characters in novels. It is usually due to the author's decision to not put female characters in. Even in medieval settings, there would still be women in society at every level. For example, romantic involvements (although this is a different feminist issue), character's family, friends' families, servants (if the main character is high class), maybe even a governess/nanny which they would be very cloe to, and definitely some form of connection between these characters. In some medieval countries, women featured prominently even fighting in wars, or holding their own land, or holding influence.
If the author wanted to be realistic, there should actually be more female characters than men, as men often died younger due to war.
You make a great point that if the author wants to, he or she can find or make a place to add another female character. There were several minor female characters in the story, but I think in this case, the main characters were not always in places where there were female characters. For example, Galen, Rowan, and Demetrius were away from there families and Galen and Rowan were exploring new work sites rather than meeting family members. While the author could have added more female characters to add to the realism, at some point realism is not beneficial to storytelling.
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Post by azidy »

I agree that a lack of female characters is an issue with this book. Even with the medieval setting, I think there was a way to include a female perspective. It was already mentioned how female characters do exist, such as Lord Eldus' wife and daughter, but they are only briefly mentioned from male perspectives. I was hoping one of them would get their own chapter, but it was only the Lord and his son that we got to learn more about.

The housekeeper was such an intriguing character and it would've been great to hear her thoughts! Matthew introduced a wide variety of characters and perspectives, but without an important female role, it felt slightly imbalanced.
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Post by Stephanie Elizabeth »

Given the time period, I guess it is justified, but still, I found myself pining for more female presence. For this reason, I found that the book was geared slightly more to a male audience. While I loved the protagonist, I think I would have been able to relate more if it was a female character.
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Post by Folcro »

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to comment on this thread (probably not), but I feel, in this particular issue, it's worth a try.

First of all, I am glad that I did not give anybody the impression that take some umbrage against women; I certainly do not.

As someone pointed out, it often will not impact the plot whether a certain character is male or female, and that is often how I write characters. In fact, many of my women are heroic and strong, as I try to avoid damsels and people who sit around doing nothing to solve their own problems. As such, it often has to be a conscious decision for me to diversify my cast in that way.

For the first few books, my focus was on establishing a big world, concept, and plot. Therefore, I defaulted to writing men. Once I became comfortable with the establishment of the setting and plot, it occurred to me to become more diverse with my cast, as diversity on all levels enriches an otherworldly story. So, I added different sexes, races, religions, and sexualities into the story.
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Post by Rodel Barnachea »

Teletha wrote: 03 Oct 2020, 02:37
xsquare wrote: 03 Oct 2020, 01:34
To be honest, I didn't feel the same about them. I didn't even remember their names, and I actually spent a good few minutes wondering who Charlotte and Isla were (granted, it's been a while since I read the first book). I remember that Charlotte was mentioned as having an illustrious career as a lawyer (?) back in Soulhire, but this was mentioned in a very off-handed way; the rest of the book was just talking about how great Lord Eldus was and his grand plans for Hillport.

I think the way their characters were written was quite tragic. Charlotte went from having a great career in the city to playing housewife in the middle of nowhere. It would have been cool if she actually assisted with Lord Eldus in his plans – that definitely would have made her end more impactful.
They were not major characters, its understandable if they're easily forgotten. I love Eldus' family. His wife might have chosen to be the basic housewife, but I believe she did well. She held her own opinion, her husband knew them, and they did work together for the family. She did not hold an official position to help Eldus, but I felt that he considered her opinions in his decisions.
Yeah, I also felt that Eldus' family is forgettable, and it's understandable since they were not main characters (only Eldus is). As for Eldus' wife, I don't think she "chose" being a housewife, given that she doesn't much have choice in that epoch. I believe she only followed what is expected to be her, so it's a little hard to guess if that is what she really want. Still, she did a good job of being a mother and a wife.
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Post by Rodel Barnachea »

Dentarthurdent wrote: 03 Oct 2020, 06:26 I sort of feel like the whole idea of equality allows one to write from the perspective he/she is most comfortable with. There is no indication from the books that Matthew Tysz's perspective towards women is a negative one; he doesn't represent them in a pejorative way, so I'm thinking that he doesn't have a specific issue with them. Maybe he's better at writing male characters. Maybe as the story unfolds in his mind these characters he creates are more male than female.
Deciding that this is wrong would be like judging a painter for only painting subjects of one gender. Some painters prefer the male form, others the female one. Others paint according to what they are better at.
I agree with you that equality allows everyone regardless of their gender, race, age, etc. to write whatever they are comfortable with. As a man, I find it a little challenging to write female characters since I'm afraid I might still have in my brain unconscious prejudice about women. Even so, for educational purposes, I still write female characters and examine what I wrote during the editing process.

Nonetheless, we have to take into account how "realistic" and "logical" the story, the characters, and the world the authors create. We cannot apply much realism here since the book is a fantasy one. As for the book's logicalness, readers who believe the book's lack of female characters is justified can argue that the book's medieval settings grants the author leeway to follow medieval gender roles. However, those who opposes argue that the book is not in medieval Earth, which means that the author can ignore these medieval social norms and create a balance of male and female characters.
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Post by DyanaFl »

Yes I was really disappointed by the lack of female strong characters. Beth and Beverly are not necessarily weak but they are not featured that often in the book and this persists in the next 2 books as well. While the story is great and agreeing on the fact that the book is just the start of the series, I think addition of female characters would have been really nice. But I can see others have said that this issue is solved in the later sequels so fingers crossed.
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Post by Aishwarya Chhabra »

I believe "have little but have good". I think this applies to the female characters in the book. Although there are fewer females in the book, but the ones present are having strong impact.
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Post by Bibliogn0st »

I noticed that too. I love reading magical stories with female leads because there is just something exciting about females who can do magic. But I have read some of the comments which mentions that there will be more female characters later in the series. I wish that they are some of the important characters which are crucial to the story.
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Post by houligan19 »

I generally tend to read books that have female main characters, and I barely even noticed that this book had so few.
This was the way the author decided on writing, and I didn't think that the few female characters detracted from the story, or that anything was out of place.
However, from this forum, I see there will be some excellent female characters introduced, and it does make me even more interested to continue reading this series.
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Post by Aisha_123 »

I noticed there were few main female characters. But, there were a few supporting female characters in this book. Although their impact was huge, they were part of the small pieces to form a bigger picture. Particularly the head servant for Lord Eldus, Beverly. Her concerns about Meldorath indicated how powerful, he is. Nevertheless, as you go further into the series, main female characters are shown.
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