Are the "Bad Guys" Actually Bad?

Use this forum to discuss the October 2020 Book of the month, "We are Voulhire: A New Arrival under Great Skies" by Matthew Tysz.
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Krista Ash
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Are the "Bad Guys" Actually Bad?

Post by Krista Ash »

There is evidence that perhaps Lord Orlin did not actually abuse children. The Riva Rohavi have very righteous reasons for hating Voulhire. Meldorath was never given a proper trial before being imprisoned.

Do you think the antagonists of the story are actually villains? Or are they more honorable than the portrayed heroes: King Wilhelm, Chancellor Maido, and King Saint Idus?
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Post by rahilshajahan »

Thats actually a fantastic question, Krista! Kudos on the observation. I don't want to give off any spoilers in upcoming books. All I can tell you is that each of the characters you mentioned holds certain morals higher than others and hence, their actions and decisions vary. You will be considered a villain when your morals question your actions. There's no villain as such; there's only you determining whether you are a villain.
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Post by AnnOgochukwu »

This is a very excellent and controversial topic. Like the author implied in an interview of his that I read on this platform, everything doesn't fall under 'good' or 'bad'. There's always an in-between, a middle point. I believe everyone Is simply trying to attain their desired goal through whatever available means. Usually, persons having unpopular or socially unaccepted goals are often termed 'bad guys'.
With regards to this book (I hope this is not a spoiler), the characters evolve. Characters change as the situation in Voulhire changes. At some point you'd find yourself sympathising with 'bad guys', and the 'good guys' transform to Brutus right before your eyes. So, I cannot say who is the true villain in this story yet.
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Post by Valerie Garske »

Good Question!
There are always more than one side to a story, and therefore truth is somewhere in the middle. Depends which side they are on. Everyone is pleading innocence and it is hard to know what is true. It is almost as if, each newcomer invents a crime regarding the predecessor to achieve power. That is except the last Lord (Eldus) of Hillport who I thought had kind motives. I did not like that Eldus and his family was killed.
~ Valerie
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Post by Reader 05 »

This is an interesting topic! I don't think there truly is a bad guy in this novel, they all seem to have their own reasons and background stories for being "bad guys."
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Post by a_r_egerton »

At this point, I'd say Riva Rohavi are definitely evil. Good people do not massacre entire towns. As for the other antagonists, I'd say "judgement reserved" for now. I expect the later books to reveal which of the other apparent antagonists are truly malicious and which ones are misunderstood.
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Post by Krista Ash »

AnnOgochukwu wrote: 04 Oct 2020, 10:08 This is a very excellent and controversial topic. Like the author implied in an interview of his that I read on this platform, everything doesn't fall under 'good' or 'bad'. There's always an in-between, a middle point. I believe everyone Is simply trying to attain their desired goal through whatever available means. Usually, persons having unpopular or socially unaccepted goals are often termed 'bad guys'.
With regards to this book (I hope this is not a spoiler), the characters evolve. Characters change as the situation in Voulhire changes. At some point you'd find yourself sympathising with 'bad guys', and the 'good guys' transform to Brutus right before your eyes. So, I cannot say who is the true villain in this story yet.
I think this is especially true of a well-written book. Characters are much more interesting if they all have some good and some bad. Honestly, I find myself rooting a bit more for Meldorath than Wilhelm right now, but that may easily change in book 2.
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Krista Ash
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Post by Krista Ash »

a_r_egerton wrote: 05 Oct 2020, 09:26 At this point, I'd say Riva Rohavi are definitely evil. Good people do not massacre entire towns. As for the other antagonists, I'd say "judgement reserved" for now. I expect the later books to reveal which of the other apparent antagonists are truly malicious and which ones are misunderstood.
Very true. The Riva did attack the town, but were they justified? The Voulhirians in the past murdered their people. I too look forward to learning which antagonists are as worth of our support as the protagonists.
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Post by Karina Nowak »

I haven't read past book two, and I honestly have a feeling that the villains are not straight cut. Which is could. I like when antagonists have deep morality issues and jaded motives. Tysz has this way where his antagonists tend to have the upper hand in the struggle very early, and they control the scene from very early. They aren't just there for the 'hero' to have their moment.

HOWEVER, and this is a big however, I really don't care how righteous your motives are. If you kill innocent people for no reason which all of the antagonists thus far have been guilty of, you ARE a 'bad guy'. Killing soldiers who choose to fight in a war for something they believe in is one thing, but when there are people who were just at the side minding their own business, living their lives, and they were slaughtered for you to meet an end, nope, you're a 'bad guy' in my book. The end.
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Krista Ash
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Post by Krista Ash »

Karina Nowak wrote: 06 Oct 2020, 15:02 I haven't read past book two, and I honestly have a feeling that the villains are not straight cut. Which is could. I like when antagonists have deep morality issues and jaded motives. Tysz has this way where his antagonists tend to have the upper hand in the struggle very early, and they control the scene from very early. They aren't just there for the 'hero' to have their moment.

HOWEVER, and this is a big however, I really don't care how righteous your motives are. If you kill innocent people for no reason which all of the antagonists thus far have been guilty of, you ARE a 'bad guy'. Killing soldiers who choose to fight in a war for something they believe in is one thing, but when there are people who were just at the side minding their own business, living their lives, and they were slaughtered for you to meet an end, nope, you're a 'bad guy' in my book. The end.
I agree with your big however. Based on your excellent definition, I suspect that by the end of the series, there will be very few "non-villain" characters. One exception I think is Lord Orlin. I don't think he is guilty of being a pedophile. Of course, if he is, he would be ranked right up there with the worst of the villains... Does anyone else think he's been framed?
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Post by luchi123 »

I just think that the 'bad guys ' used their magical powers to do bad things. Although there was evidence that Lord Orlin wasn't a paedophile, I'd like to see more evidence in the other books to be able to justify his actions.
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Post by MariaLivaniou »

That is a very intresting observation. This is actually what I loved about this book. Matthew Tysz portrayed a very realistic society. In the real world people aren't all good or all bad, but we all have the potential for both, and that is what I saw and loved in his characters
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Post by Loads Rails »

I think Lord Orrin was not abusing children and it was all done by Meldorath. Meldorath uses the Riva Rohavi to attack hillport. I think Lord Meldorath is truly a bad guy.
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Post by Moray_001 »

Oh I actually considered this too at some point when I was reading this book. For example, Lord Meldorath, it was the fear of him and the power he had that made him a public enemy.
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Post by Yasmira_M »

I believe that there is no completely bad or good person but our circumstances determining our course of action. Everyone is capable of both good and bad.
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