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The Magic System
Posted: 06 Oct 2020, 15:20
by Karina Nowak
After I read this book I was left frustrated over the magic system, or rather that it wasn't explained enough. I get that maybe there were certain things that the writer didn't want to reveal just yet because it's only the first book. I also didn't expect everything to be explained in depth right away, but there needed to be, MORE!
The author seems to be building their own magic system which, seriously, bravo, Tysz!
However, telling the reader that magic has limitations but then creating several characters that operate without any known limitations is confusing. If I'm honest, I did feel a little cheated that he didn't explain more about Caromentis and how the magic worked.
Yes, I know, there's probably more in the other books, I just needed more in this one. Did anyone else feel like that?
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 07 Oct 2020, 05:33
by Ellylion
Well, I believe, that Demetrius and Meldorath are our guides in the world of magic. And they still learn, so are we. I mean, Caromentis is Meldorath's main interest, he wants to study it, to study magic even in spite of being very powerful already. And Demetrius is still very young, there are innumerable possibilities for him to become a strong mage. I prefer "to study" magic through his experience to be frank
Magic as a main theme comes to play in other books, and I didn't feel we needed more in the first one, it was still introductory.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 07 Oct 2020, 06:54
by Krista Ash
I agree. It would have been nice to understand the limitations, especially for Meldorath. It seemed like he needed the Riva's distraction to escape, but the powers of him and his friends combined seem like they would be more than enough to overpower the guards. I look forward to learning more in the rest of the series.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 07 Oct 2020, 08:40
by luchi123
Yes, I felt the same way too. That was why I enjoyed reading about Galen more because I felt that he, was the only real character I could relate with. However, then came Demetrius; and magic of course will be introduced into Galen's life too. I also didn't understand how the magical powers were graded. For instance, Rowan, Marshus, the mages, and biomage all had magical abilities, but they couldn't do as much as Meldorath did with his.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 07 Oct 2020, 10:05
by MariaLivaniou
The truth is the magic system frusterated me too. I was always waiting for an explanation that never came, and everything seemed so fluid with magic, no rules,no limits. Someone may think that this means that the magic system hasn't been explaind properly yet, but I am not so sure thats the case. In fanatsy books there are two types of magic systems the soft and the hard magic system.
The hard magic system has rules, has limitations and very difined structure, on the other hand the soft magic system has none of the above, pretty much anything can happen in this one and it would be perfecty acceptable. I haven't read the rest of the series yet, I am currently reading the second book but I didnt get and explanation there either, so I have come to the conclusion that we are dealing with a soft magic system.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 07 Oct 2020, 14:33
by Krista Ash
RobinBennet wrote: ↑07 Oct 2020, 10:05
The truth is the magic system frusterated me too. I was always waiting for an explanation that never came, and everything seemed so fluid with magic, no rules,no limits. Someone may think that this means that the magic system hasn't been explaind properly yet, but I am not so sure thats the case. In fanatsy books there are two types of magic systems the soft and the hard magic system.
The hard magic system has rules, has limitations and very difined structure, on the other hand the soft magic system has none of the above, pretty much anything can happen in this one and it would be perfecty acceptable. I haven't read the rest of the series yet, I am currently reading the second book but I didnt get and explanation there either, so I have come to the conclusion that we are dealing with a soft magic system.
I think soft magic systems still have rules, even if they aren't explicitly stated to the reader. It would be nice to get a better overall feel for what is possible in this world since I am skeptical that everything is possible. I do agree, though, that it isn't likely we'll get the rules for the magic system in this series, unless Galen for some reason becomes a mage.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 07 Oct 2020, 17:58
by Karina Nowak
RobinBennet wrote: ↑07 Oct 2020, 10:05
The truth is the magic system frusterated me too. I was always waiting for an explanation that never came, and everything seemed so fluid with magic, no rules,no limits. Someone may think that this means that the magic system hasn't been explaind properly yet, but I am not so sure thats the case. In fanatsy books there are two types of magic systems the soft and the hard magic system.
The hard magic system has rules, has limitations and very difined structure, on the other hand the soft magic system has none of the above, pretty much anything can happen in this one and it would be perfecty acceptable. I haven't read the rest of the series yet, I am currently reading the second book but I didnt get and explanation there either, so I have come to the conclusion that we are dealing with a soft magic system.
I wanted to call this a soft magic system, but it doesn't quite fit that either. Even soft magic systems STILL have some kind of limitations even if it doesn't have hardcore rules. LOTR's basically has a soft magic system, because the magic is not as clear cut as HP. Gandalf never had spells you could learn off from a Charms textbook, so it's definitely soft. But even Gandalf HAD limitations. He needed his staff, for instance, to act as a conduit to perform his magic. And that, from what I remember, was established from the beginning and never changed.
I have no idea what the limitations of the magic in this book are. Meldorath can clap his hands and all of Soulhire could disappear and it would be plausible given what I've read so far.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 07 Oct 2020, 18:10
by Karina Nowak
Ellylion wrote: ↑07 Oct 2020, 05:33
Well, I believe, that Demetrius and Meldorath are our guides in the world of magic. And they still learn, so are we. I mean, Caromentis is Meldorath's main interest, he wants to study it, to study magic even in spite of being very powerful already. And Demetrius is still very young, there are innumerable possibilities for him to become a strong mage. I prefer "to study" magic through his experience to be frank
Magic as a main theme comes to play in other books, and I didn't feel we needed more in the first one, it was still introductory.
I guess my main problem with the magic not having any obvious limitations yet, is that the writer could unintentionally set up the defeat of these seemingly all powerful characters to not be realistic at all. Which I've seen happen before. A writer just doesn't establish any limitations for their 'villain' and then their defeat seems comical at best because the loophole which allowed for them to be defeated was not believable. And it spoils the entire ending! And I have reason to feel that it could go there because the author hinted at the fact that Meldorath could have escaped all along and was just waiting for the right time.
But you know, I've only read two books, I don't know where this is going, I'm just hoping it doesn't go there.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 08 Oct 2020, 06:35
by Ellylion
Karina Nowak wrote: ↑07 Oct 2020, 18:10
Ellylion wrote: ↑07 Oct 2020, 05:33
Well, I believe, that Demetrius and Meldorath are our guides in the world of magic. And they still learn, so are we. I mean, Caromentis is Meldorath's main interest, he wants to study it, to study magic even in spite of being very powerful already. And Demetrius is still very young, there are innumerable possibilities for him to become a strong mage. I prefer "to study" magic through his experience to be frank
Magic as a main theme comes to play in other books, and I didn't feel we needed more in the first one, it was still introductory.
I guess my main problem with the magic not having any obvious limitations yet, is that the writer could unintentionally set up the defeat of these seemingly all powerful characters to not be realistic at all. Which I've seen happen before. A writer just doesn't establish any limitations for their 'villain' and then their defeat seems comical at best because the loophole which allowed for them to be defeated was not believable. And it spoils the entire ending! And I have reason to feel that it could go there because the author hinted at the fact that Meldorath could have escaped all along and was just waiting for the right time.
But you know, I've only read two books, I don't know where this is going, I'm just hoping it doesn't go there.
It' is only my guess, but I think that Demetrius will be the one who will defeat Meldorath. Because, again - they both continue to study and to improve their powers. And we can follow this process, so there shouldn't be any surprises. Meldorath's main strength is that he is never contented with himself, he always wants to go further. His true current abilities will be shown in the book 3.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 08 Oct 2020, 16:23
by Krista Ash
Karina Nowak wrote: ↑07 Oct 2020, 18:10
Ellylion wrote: ↑07 Oct 2020, 05:33
Well, I believe, that Demetrius and Meldorath are our guides in the world of magic. And they still learn, so are we. I mean, Caromentis is Meldorath's main interest, he wants to study it, to study magic even in spite of being very powerful already. And Demetrius is still very young, there are innumerable possibilities for him to become a strong mage. I prefer "to study" magic through his experience to be frank
Magic as a main theme comes to play in other books, and I didn't feel we needed more in the first one, it was still introductory.
I guess my main problem with the magic not having any obvious limitations yet, is that the writer could unintentionally set up the defeat of these seemingly all powerful characters to not be realistic at all. Which I've seen happen before. A writer just doesn't establish any limitations for their 'villain' and then their defeat seems comical at best because the loophole which allowed for them to be defeated was not believable. And it spoils the entire ending! And I have reason to feel that it could go there because the author hinted at the fact that Meldorath could have escaped all along and was just waiting for the right time.
But you know, I've only read two books, I don't know where this is going, I'm just hoping it doesn't go there.
The lack of limits on magic in this series makes me a bit worried too about whether the ending will be believable. Meldorath has been made out to be basically all-powerful. Hopefully future books will give us some idea of what's possible before the final battle/the villain's defeat.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 09 Oct 2020, 03:20
by xsquare
Yeah, I definitely wished there were more rules surrounding the magic in this book too. I'd really like to know who can and who can't wield magic – it doesn't seem like every character is capable of it (or maybe some people just don't like using magic, but who knows).
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 11:09
by mariana90
I agree!! I thought he needed to do a bit more worldbuilding, as it was the first book and we were completely new to the story and setting.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 10 Oct 2020, 14:27
by Krista Ash
xsquare wrote: ↑09 Oct 2020, 03:20
Yeah, I definitely wished there were more rules surrounding the magic in this book too. I'd really like to know who can and who can't wield magic – it doesn't seem like every character is capable of it (or maybe some people just don't like using magic, but who knows).
I think people are who can wield magic were born that way, but perhaps mages just need to go through a lot of training to become proficient. I would guess that we would have heard about schools for mages, though, if that was the case. Hopefully the rest of the series will give us a better idea of how magic works.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 11 Oct 2020, 01:49
by xsquare
Krista Ash wrote: ↑10 Oct 2020, 14:27
I think people are who can wield magic were born that way, but perhaps mages just need to go through a lot of training to become proficient. I would guess that we would have heard about schools for mages, though, if that was the case. Hopefully the rest of the series will give us a better idea of how magic works.
True, but an interesting follow up question would be: how is the magic passed on? Is it hereditary and just limited to families, or is it random chance by virtue of living near some magic object, or maybe even something else?
Magic schools would be pretty cool.
Re: The Magic System
Posted: 11 Oct 2020, 21:06
by Pluma
I found the magic system of this book to be quite interesting and original, but, like you, I did feel like there should have been slightly more explanation, as there were several points where I was left confused or mystified. I think there are some points that need to be better explained, and it almost seems like it is sidelined in the plot. I have only read the first few books in the series, though, so maybe this is dealt with better a bit later on.