Page 1 of 2
Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 01 Dec 2020, 06:41
by Maddie Atkinson
To me, from a sociological point of view, it seems like the author is struggling to stay true to his beliefs as society's values change. For example, his questions about family planning are stemming from the Catholic belief that contraception interferes with God's Plan for us, but the values of society have changed to believe that it is fine to plan families and in fact very important, which is leading to conflict between religion and society. So I was wondering, do other people see this struggle that I think is being presented in the book?
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 03 Dec 2020, 15:21
by Jabril Miller
I do believe that some of the issues in this book do come from the author's struggle to deal with the values of Catholic society, though I believe it's less anachronistic and more of a general issue with the way Catholic culture treats the readings of the bible and the issues of overall culture.
(I have never observed any hesitancy by any priest or bishop to ask women to do things for them, but that’s as far as it goes. Oh the Church, in an act of complete condescension, has allowed women to read the scriptures, and to give communion, but I suspect this was to prevent complete rebellion (give the dog a crumb). )
Hunt, Hilary. Wilderness Cry: A Scientific And Philosophical Approach To Understanding God And The Universe (p. 22). Kindle Edition.
For instance, they believe that the way the Catholic church has treated women is unfair, despite the idea that women should not be consecrated has been an idea that has persisted in the Catholic church for a length of time.
In the following chapter (Chapter 6), they also express the idea that if churches were truly giving (or "just" in this case) they would sell everything they own and donate to the needy around them. It seems to be a divorce from the ideal of what they consider to be "genuinely Christian values" and the teachings of the church, in this instance.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 04 Dec 2020, 11:21
by Maddie Atkinson
12ultimate wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 15:21
I do believe that some of the issues in this book do come from the author's struggle to deal with the values of Catholic society, though I believe it's less anachronistic and more of a general issue with the way Catholic culture treats the readings of the bible and the issues of overall culture.
(I have never observed any hesitancy by any priest or bishop to ask women to do things for them, but that’s as far as it goes. Oh the Church, in an act of complete condescension, has allowed women to read the scriptures, and to give communion, but I suspect this was to prevent complete rebellion (give the dog a crumb). )
Hunt, Hilary. Wilderness Cry: A Scientific And Philosophical Approach To Understanding God And The Universe (p. 22). Kindle Edition.
For instance, they believe that the way the Catholic church has treated women is unfair, despite the idea that women should not be consecrated has been an idea that has persisted in the Catholic church for a length of time.
In the following chapter (Chapter 6), they also express the idea that if churches were truly giving (or "just" in this case) they would sell everything they own and donate to the needy around them. It seems to be a divorce from the ideal of what they consider to be "genuinely Christian values" and the teachings of the church, in this instance.
I think the author is definitely struggling with the change in societal values and Catholic values, because as you say, they believe the way women are treated is unfair, which contrasts with the view that Catholic's have on women. I think the author is trying to balance these beliefs with their own, and leaning more towards the idea that the Church needs to catch up with the times and stop living in the past. If it doesn't change to appeal to the masses, it will eventually die out. So yeah, I think he is struggling between changing societal values, and the stubborn values of the Church.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 09 Dec 2020, 15:10
by readsbyarun
There is some sort of confusions that are brought in this book while explain the primary contrast between the religious and the social values. In my opinion they cannot be compared with each other and has to be viewed separately.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 10 Dec 2020, 13:17
by Juliet+1
I don't think the author himself is struggling between religious and social values. He is accusing the Catholic Church of sacrificing its own beliefs and rules in order to attract more members and more donations from a population whose values have changed. He claims that the church doesn't change any of its beliefs, but simply mutes them. The example he uses is contraception. The church still officially condemns contraception, considering it a sin. But it is not mentioned -- no sermons about this sin, no encouragement to the faithful to refrain from using contraception, just silence.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 10 Dec 2020, 22:55
by spencermack
I completely agree. The authors ideas are present because of the time we live in rather than the divine intervention.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 11 Dec 2020, 09:36
by Caroline Anne Richmond
I think some of these issues are a sign of modern times. The use of contraception cannot be seen as a sin these days as it’s a sensible component of human decision making to ensure correct outcomes for their particular life situation. It is very difficult to agree with catholic religion that contraception is sinful in this day and age. With times changing, religion needs to move along with the times to have any credibility.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 11 Dec 2020, 13:14
by Fozia RYK
The utilization of contraception can't be viewed as a wrongdoing these days as it's a reasonable segment of human dynamic to guarantee right results for their specific life circumstance. It is extremely hard to concur with catholic religion that contraception is corrupt nowadays. With times changing, religion needs to move alongside the occasions to have any believability.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 12 Dec 2020, 00:08
by Huini Hellen
I personally don't think God would want one to have kids that they cannot provide for or take very good care of. Thus, in as much as there's a lot of controversies surrounding the best family planning methods that one can use, it would only be prudent to evaluate one's motivation to have kids.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 12 Dec 2020, 07:05
by Maddie Atkinson
readsbyarun wrote: ↑09 Dec 2020, 15:10
There is some sort of confusions that are brought in this book while explain the primary contrast between the religious and the social values. In my opinion they cannot be compared with each other and has to be viewed separately.
On the contrary, they can definitely be compared to each other and viewed together. The teaching of the Church line up with the values that society held at the time it was set up, but it needs to catch up with today. While the Catholic Church is struggling to change, many other churches, such as the Church of England, are changing its values as society's values change. For example, it now allows women to be leaders within the Church, and it no longer condemns the LGBT community, with some, not all, allowing them to get married within the Church. In order to keep and audience and its followers, the Church needs to adapt to societal values, because many countries are becoming secular because the Church, especially Catholics, refuse to adapt. So social values and religious values can absolutely be compared.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 16 Dec 2020, 23:57
by Dayodiola
One can't adhere to modern societal values and not be challenging religious values. Such is the situation the author was.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 17 Dec 2020, 06:17
by zainherb
12ultimate wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 15:21
I do believe that some of the issues in this book do come from the author's struggle to deal with the values of Catholic society, though I believe it's less anachronistic and more of a general issue with the way Catholic culture treats the readings of the bible and the issues of overall culture.
(I have never observed any hesitancy by any priest or bishop to ask women to do things for them, but that’s as far as it goes. Oh the Church, in an act of complete condescension, has allowed women to read the scriptures, and to give communion, but I suspect this was to prevent complete rebellion (give the dog a crumb). )
Hunt, Hilary. Wilderness Cry: A Scientific And Philosophical Approach To Understanding God And The Universe (p. 22). Kindle Edition.
For instance, they believe that the way the Catholic church has treated women is unfair, despite the idea that women should not be consecrated has been an idea that has persisted in the Catholic church for a length of time.
In the following chapter (Chapter 6), they also express the idea that if churches were truly giving (or "just" in this case) they would sell everything they own and donate to the needy around them. It seems to be a divorce from the ideal of what they consider to be "genuinely Christian values" and the teachings of the church, in this instance.
I do agree. I think the author is struggling with these two values.
Beyond societal values however, there is the issue of the internal moral compass. The moral compass that tells you what it means to be generous, which then contrasts sharply with what the Church does while claiming to be moral, from what the book indicates.
In other words, I think the author is struggling to reconcile her inner morals with the morals of the church and how they act, in addition to societal values and how those should be understood.
A tough place to be.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 17 Dec 2020, 10:57
by Maddie Atkinson
zainherb wrote: ↑17 Dec 2020, 06:17
12ultimate wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 15:21
I do believe that some of the issues in this book do come from the author's struggle to deal with the values of Catholic society, though I believe it's less anachronistic and more of a general issue with the way Catholic culture treats the readings of the bible and the issues of overall culture.
(I have never observed any hesitancy by any priest or bishop to ask women to do things for them, but that’s as far as it goes. Oh the Church, in an act of complete condescension, has allowed women to read the scriptures, and to give communion, but I suspect this was to prevent complete rebellion (give the dog a crumb). )
Hunt, Hilary. Wilderness Cry: A Scientific And Philosophical Approach To Understanding God And The Universe (p. 22). Kindle Edition.
For instance, they believe that the way the Catholic church has treated women is unfair, despite the idea that women should not be consecrated has been an idea that has persisted in the Catholic church for a length of time.
In the following chapter (Chapter 6), they also express the idea that if churches were truly giving (or "just" in this case) they would sell everything they own and donate to the needy around them. It seems to be a divorce from the ideal of what they consider to be "genuinely Christian values" and the teachings of the church, in this instance.
I do agree. I think the author is struggling with these two values.
Beyond societal values however, there is the issue of the internal moral compass. The moral compass that tells you what it means to be generous, which then contrasts sharply with what the Church does while claiming to be moral, from what the book indicates.
In other words, I think the author is struggling to reconcile her inner morals with the morals of the church and how they act, in addition to societal values and how those should be understood.
A tough place to be.
I agree that it is a very tough place to be, I didn't even think about how struggling with the moral compass could add to it as well! But in a way, isn't one's morals dictated by society's values? For example, morals based around the treatment of gay people was very different compared to how it is today, and that is based on how society has changed its values.
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 19 Dec 2020, 22:55
by Shahina C A
I think author is definitely struggling between religious values and societal values
Re: Is the author struggling between religious values and changing societal values?
Posted: 20 Dec 2020, 07:10
by Maddie Atkinson
Shahina C A wrote: ↑19 Dec 2020, 22:55
I think author is definitely struggling between religious values and societal values
In what way do you think so? Which societal values do you think clash with his religious ones? I am just interested to know your opinions on this!
