Are Hunt's views on the Church universal?

Use this forum to discuss the December 2020 Book of the month, "Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe" by Hilary L Hunt M.D.
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Re: Are Hunt's views on the Church universal?

Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Thea Frederick wrote: 02 Jan 2021, 13:04
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 02 Jan 2021, 08:27
Thea Frederick wrote: 01 Jan 2021, 22:43

I disagree about the mistranslation, but that is okay. We don't have to agree.

They aren't perfect, but, like I said, they are working together and PRAYING. They dedicate their lives to the service of God and his people and they keep each other in line. That is why the Eastern Orthodox Church does not believe in the infallibility of the pope. He is a man and also likely to sin. In the Eastern Orthodox Church there is a synod of bishops so that when one is making a mistake the others can counsel against it.
Do you really believe that we each have the wisdom to determine the meaning behind all of God's words? I certainly don't have that wisdom. I don't pray and seek God's will nearly enough to know his Truth when it confronts me.
You don't have to agree or disagree, but it is what happened, it's not an opinion it's a fact. Do you really believe that God wants everyone to love each other, but draws the line at same sex? It doesn't affect Him, or anyone else besides the people it involves and it isn't anyone's business but theirs. Also, religion or not, I don't think anyone gets to decide that some people deserve more human rights than another. I am gay and that is not a sin. That mistranslation has led to more deaths than you could possibly imagine because people have believed in it so whole heartedly, or have used it to support their own agenda that they thought it was their right to kill people just for who they love.

I personally believe that I have the right to make my own choices, and I shouldn't be told by someone interpreting the Bible what path I should take, because that is their interpretation of the Bible. What makes a priest or bishop more wise than me when it comes to interpreting the Bible? I think all of us have the wisdom to determine God's word because we all have different morals and different values, so God's word means a different thing to each person. We shouldn't have to follow one path just because someone told us what their opinion on God's word was!
Alright, well, I can see this won't go anywhere. To fully understand my point of view you would have to understand the church I am apart of and the teaching and lifestyle that accompanies it. But it is the same for me as well. So, I guess we have to agree to disagree.
I appreciate your willingness to discuss with me. I hope I have not offended you. We just clearly live by different morals and guidelines and we have different perspectives on life.
You haven't offended me, and I am sorry if I came across harsh in any way. But you must understand that I am judged for my sexuality because of what the Bible says. I just don't see how it originally said that, considering homosexuality wasn't even a word then, and the original word meant boy. God made us all and He doesn't make mistakes, so being gay just cannot be a sin in my eyes. We do have different perspectives on life, and that's okay! But may I ask you something, without judgement of your church or the way you live? Why do we have to agree to disagree on the rights that someone has? I believe it is my right to love who I love. I am not harming anyone or changing your life for being gay. I am not asking you to understand what I go through every day for loving who I love, I am not judging you for the church you are a part of or the way you were brought up. I am just asking, based on your just your understanding of human rights. Why should I not be allowed to be who I am if it is God that made me that way?

I really am sorry if I have caused offense, I really do understand the way different churches and beliefs lead to different lifestyles. I didn't mean for this to not go anywhere. Sometimes debating beliefs doesn't have to lead to persuading the other to change, but rather challenges and helps people think on other perspectives. I wouldn't want to change what you believe at all, and I really am sorry for coming off as aggressive, it is just hard to get tone across through typing answers rather than actually talking!
"I decided a while ago not to deny myself the simpler pleasures of existence" - Augustus Waters (The Fault in Our Stars)
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Post by Thea Frederick »

Maddie Atkinson wrote: 02 Jan 2021, 14:31
Thea Frederick wrote: 02 Jan 2021, 13:04
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 02 Jan 2021, 08:27

You don't have to agree or disagree, but it is what happened, it's not an opinion it's a fact. Do you really believe that God wants everyone to love each other, but draws the line at same sex? It doesn't affect Him, or anyone else besides the people it involves and it isn't anyone's business but theirs. Also, religion or not, I don't think anyone gets to decide that some people deserve more human rights than another. I am gay and that is not a sin. That mistranslation has led to more deaths than you could possibly imagine because people have believed in it so whole heartedly, or have used it to support their own agenda that they thought it was their right to kill people just for who they love.

I personally believe that I have the right to make my own choices, and I shouldn't be told by someone interpreting the Bible what path I should take, because that is their interpretation of the Bible. What makes a priest or bishop more wise than me when it comes to interpreting the Bible? I think all of us have the wisdom to determine God's word because we all have different morals and different values, so God's word means a different thing to each person. We shouldn't have to follow one path just because someone told us what their opinion on God's word was!
Alright, well, I can see this won't go anywhere. To fully understand my point of view you would have to understand the church I am apart of and the teaching and lifestyle that accompanies it. But it is the same for me as well. So, I guess we have to agree to disagree.
I appreciate your willingness to discuss with me. I hope I have not offended you. We just clearly live by different morals and guidelines and we have different perspectives on life.
You haven't offended me, and I am sorry if I came across harsh in any way. But you must understand that I am judged for my sexuality because of what the Bible says. I just don't see how it originally said that, considering homosexuality wasn't even a word then, and the original word meant boy. God made us all and He doesn't make mistakes, so being gay just cannot be a sin in my eyes. We do have different perspectives on life, and that's okay! But may I ask you something, without judgement of your church or the way you live? Why do we have to agree to disagree on the rights that someone has? I believe it is my right to love who I love. I am not harming anyone or changing your life for being gay. I am not asking you to understand what I go through every day for loving who I love, I am not judging you for the church you are a part of or the way you were brought up. I am just asking, based on your just your understanding of human rights. Why should I not be allowed to be who I am if it is God that made me that way?

I really am sorry if I have caused offense, I really do understand the way different churches and beliefs lead to different lifestyles. I didn't mean for this to not go anywhere. Sometimes debating beliefs doesn't have to lead to persuading the other to change, but rather challenges and helps people think on other perspectives. I wouldn't want to change what you believe at all, and I really am sorry for coming off as aggressive, it is just hard to get tone across through typing answers rather than actually talking!
You have not offended me either, and I appreciate your willingness to debate with me calmly and kindly (some people aren't able to do that).
I understand where you are coming from (though I have never experienced it and cannot know what it feels like, I can understand how you would feel) and I am sorry if you feel like an outcast. Honestly, I do understand how it feels to be somewhat of an outcast. As I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian my church practices are much more ascetical and different from other denominations (as the practices have been preserved over hundreds of years, you would not see our worship and think "modern" :-), it is full of old traditions and long preserved beauty. As such, my immediate family and I are always sort of the "black sheep" of the family. The ones who have different church practices, who fast, confess, and have many different services. So we are seen as sort of strange to other people.
Just to be clear, my church does not judge people who are homosexual. We do not believe it is what God wants and we do not believe it is how God made us to be, but we do not judge people who do. We love them and pray for them. There are some churches that would hate and reject those people, but we are not one of them.
We see it more as a state of sin and fallenness of the human race. As such, it would be a temptation that one would fight against rather than accept as the way God made them. But as long as the person is fighting and confessing their sins and following God's commandments they are allowed to participate in the sacraments of the church. But the Orthodox Church does not hate homosexual people nor does it judge them (individual Orthodox Christians may judge, but that is their own sin which they need to fight).
I understand that the above beliefs are not ones that you share. I am just explaining how my church views it (I am not trying to insult you or judge you, just help you understand where my beliefs come from).
So, to address your question, the reason I say we must agree to disagree is because I can't agree that God made us that way and I can't agree that it does not harm people as I see it as a state of sin. But, I do appreciate your respect for other churches and other lifestyles and while I may not agree with your decisions, I do respect the free will that God gave each of us and I do not judge you for your decisions.
I have to tell you, I immensely appreciate you discussions with me. Like you said, even if our stance on the matters we discuss do not change, discussing widens our perspectives and helps us understand each other better. It is one of the reasons I enjoy discussing controversial topics with people. Thank you :-)
-Thea M. Frederick
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Thea Frederick wrote: 04 Jan 2021, 12:11
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 02 Jan 2021, 14:31
Thea Frederick wrote: 02 Jan 2021, 13:04

Alright, well, I can see this won't go anywhere. To fully understand my point of view you would have to understand the church I am apart of and the teaching and lifestyle that accompanies it. But it is the same for me as well. So, I guess we have to agree to disagree.
I appreciate your willingness to discuss with me. I hope I have not offended you. We just clearly live by different morals and guidelines and we have different perspectives on life.
You haven't offended me, and I am sorry if I came across harsh in any way. But you must understand that I am judged for my sexuality because of what the Bible says. I just don't see how it originally said that, considering homosexuality wasn't even a word then, and the original word meant boy. God made us all and He doesn't make mistakes, so being gay just cannot be a sin in my eyes. We do have different perspectives on life, and that's okay! But may I ask you something, without judgement of your church or the way you live? Why do we have to agree to disagree on the rights that someone has? I believe it is my right to love who I love. I am not harming anyone or changing your life for being gay. I am not asking you to understand what I go through every day for loving who I love, I am not judging you for the church you are a part of or the way you were brought up. I am just asking, based on your just your understanding of human rights. Why should I not be allowed to be who I am if it is God that made me that way?

I really am sorry if I have caused offense, I really do understand the way different churches and beliefs lead to different lifestyles. I didn't mean for this to not go anywhere. Sometimes debating beliefs doesn't have to lead to persuading the other to change, but rather challenges and helps people think on other perspectives. I wouldn't want to change what you believe at all, and I really am sorry for coming off as aggressive, it is just hard to get tone across through typing answers rather than actually talking!
You have not offended me either, and I appreciate your willingness to debate with me calmly and kindly (some people aren't able to do that).
I understand where you are coming from (though I have never experienced it and cannot know what it feels like, I can understand how you would feel) and I am sorry if you feel like an outcast. Honestly, I do understand how it feels to be somewhat of an outcast. As I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian my church practices are much more ascetical and different from other denominations (as the practices have been preserved over hundreds of years, you would not see our worship and think "modern" :-), it is full of old traditions and long preserved beauty. As such, my immediate family and I are always sort of the "black sheep" of the family. The ones who have different church practices, who fast, confess, and have many different services. So we are seen as sort of strange to other people.
Just to be clear, my church does not judge people who are homosexual. We do not believe it is what God wants and we do not believe it is how God made us to be, but we do not judge people who do. We love them and pray for them. There are some churches that would hate and reject those people, but we are not one of them.
We see it more as a state of sin and fallenness of the human race. As such, it would be a temptation that one would fight against rather than accept as the way God made them. But as long as the person is fighting and confessing their sins and following God's commandments they are allowed to participate in the sacraments of the church. But the Orthodox Church does not hate homosexual people nor does it judge them (individual Orthodox Christians may judge, but that is their own sin which they need to fight).
I understand that the above beliefs are not ones that you share. I am just explaining how my church views it (I am not trying to insult you or judge you, just help you understand where my beliefs come from).
So, to address your question, the reason I say we must agree to disagree is because I can't agree that God made us that way and I can't agree that it does not harm people as I see it as a state of sin. But, I do appreciate your respect for other churches and other lifestyles and while I may not agree with your decisions, I do respect the free will that God gave each of us and I do not judge you for your decisions.
I have to tell you, I immensely appreciate you discussions with me. Like you said, even if our stance on the matters we discuss do not change, discussing widens our perspectives and helps us understand each other better. It is one of the reasons I enjoy discussing controversial topics with people. Thank you :-)
I very much enjoy these discussions I have had with you and I am glad I have not offended you. People don't always have to agree to get along and I am glad we have been able to debate without judgement or anger, but rather understanding and kindness!

I am glad that your church doesn't judge, even if you don't agree with my beliefs. I guess a reason I have a different view is because a) I am gay so I find it hard to see other people's points of view on homosexuality and b) my church is the Church of England (I'm British!) which has is recent years changed their stance on homosexuality! Being very interested in sociology, I love hearing about different denominations' beliefs and debating, it helps me to learn more about the world!
May I ask why you believe homosexuality hurts people? (and also say that being gay is not a decision, I love my girlfriend very much and I don't believe love is a choice!). Again I don't mean any offense by questioning your beliefs, I am just interested, most Christians I talk to about this don't like to debate, but rather tell me I am going to hell, which is a bit hurtful really (but at least I'll be warm! :lol: ). - I'm sorry to keep repeating 'I hope I haven't offended you', I have severe anxiety so worry about hurting people a lot :cry:

Also, may I ask if I can add you as a friend on here? I like you! (no homo don't worry! I'm in a committed relationship! :P )
"I decided a while ago not to deny myself the simpler pleasures of existence" - Augustus Waters (The Fault in Our Stars)
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Post by BellAJoEb »

I believe the author, writing from the Catholic point of view, believed there is only the catholic church and other churches. But contrary to his view, his view does not cover all churches but just the the catholic. I believe that that he infers that the catholic church makes us feel guilty for our sins. Considering that I am not catholic, my experience and his are not the same.
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Post by Thea Frederick »

Maddie Atkinson wrote: 04 Jan 2021, 14:23
Thea Frederick wrote: 04 Jan 2021, 12:11
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 02 Jan 2021, 14:31

You haven't offended me, and I am sorry if I came across harsh in any way. But you must understand that I am judged for my sexuality because of what the Bible says. I just don't see how it originally said that, considering homosexuality wasn't even a word then, and the original word meant boy. God made us all and He doesn't make mistakes, so being gay just cannot be a sin in my eyes. We do have different perspectives on life, and that's okay! But may I ask you something, without judgement of your church or the way you live? Why do we have to agree to disagree on the rights that someone has? I believe it is my right to love who I love. I am not harming anyone or changing your life for being gay. I am not asking you to understand what I go through every day for loving who I love, I am not judging you for the church you are a part of or the way you were brought up. I am just asking, based on your just your understanding of human rights. Why should I not be allowed to be who I am if it is God that made me that way?

I really am sorry if I have caused offense, I really do understand the way different churches and beliefs lead to different lifestyles. I didn't mean for this to not go anywhere. Sometimes debating beliefs doesn't have to lead to persuading the other to change, but rather challenges and helps people think on other perspectives. I wouldn't want to change what you believe at all, and I really am sorry for coming off as aggressive, it is just hard to get tone across through typing answers rather than actually talking!
You have not offended me either, and I appreciate your willingness to debate with me calmly and kindly (some people aren't able to do that).
I understand where you are coming from (though I have never experienced it and cannot know what it feels like, I can understand how you would feel) and I am sorry if you feel like an outcast. Honestly, I do understand how it feels to be somewhat of an outcast. As I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian my church practices are much more ascetical and different from other denominations (as the practices have been preserved over hundreds of years, you would not see our worship and think "modern" :-), it is full of old traditions and long preserved beauty. As such, my immediate family and I are always sort of the "black sheep" of the family. The ones who have different church practices, who fast, confess, and have many different services. So we are seen as sort of strange to other people.
Just to be clear, my church does not judge people who are homosexual. We do not believe it is what God wants and we do not believe it is how God made us to be, but we do not judge people who do. We love them and pray for them. There are some churches that would hate and reject those people, but we are not one of them.
We see it more as a state of sin and fallenness of the human race. As such, it would be a temptation that one would fight against rather than accept as the way God made them. But as long as the person is fighting and confessing their sins and following God's commandments they are allowed to participate in the sacraments of the church. But the Orthodox Church does not hate homosexual people nor does it judge them (individual Orthodox Christians may judge, but that is their own sin which they need to fight).
I understand that the above beliefs are not ones that you share. I am just explaining how my church views it (I am not trying to insult you or judge you, just help you understand where my beliefs come from).
So, to address your question, the reason I say we must agree to disagree is because I can't agree that God made us that way and I can't agree that it does not harm people as I see it as a state of sin. But, I do appreciate your respect for other churches and other lifestyles and while I may not agree with your decisions, I do respect the free will that God gave each of us and I do not judge you for your decisions.
I have to tell you, I immensely appreciate you discussions with me. Like you said, even if our stance on the matters we discuss do not change, discussing widens our perspectives and helps us understand each other better. It is one of the reasons I enjoy discussing controversial topics with people. Thank you :-)
I very much enjoy these discussions I have had with you and I am glad I have not offended you. People don't always have to agree to get along and I am glad we have been able to debate without judgement or anger, but rather understanding and kindness!

I am glad that your church doesn't judge, even if you don't agree with my beliefs. I guess a reason I have a different view is because a) I am gay so I find it hard to see other people's points of view on homosexuality and b) my church is the Church of England (I'm British!) which has is recent years changed their stance on homosexuality! Being very interested in sociology, I love hearing about different denominations' beliefs and debating, it helps me to learn more about the world!
May I ask why you believe homosexuality hurts people? (and also say that being gay is not a decision, I love my girlfriend very much and I don't believe love is a choice!). Again I don't mean any offense by questioning your beliefs, I am just interested, most Christians I talk to about this don't like to debate, but rather tell me I am going to hell, which is a bit hurtful really (but at least I'll be warm! :lol: ). - I'm sorry to keep repeating 'I hope I haven't offended you', I have severe anxiety so worry about hurting people a lot :cry:

Also, may I ask if I can add you as a friend on here? I like you! (no homo don't worry! I'm in a committed relationship! :P )
Ooh, England! I love England but I have never been, I'm DYING to visit! Where in England do you live?

So, since my church sees homosexuality as a state of sin we believe that it hurts the souls of the people who are engaging in that sin. Sin is separating oneself from God because sin is the absence of God, and separating ourselves from God is the worst thing we can do. And it isn't that you can't love someone who is the same sex as you, it's just that it would be a different kind of love. More of a sisterly love. Sexuality would remain between a woman and her husband (or no one, if one didn't have a husband). So if one found themselves sexually attracted to someone of their own sex, in the Orthodox church this would be something to fight against and talk to their priest about for guidance rather than except. This is because we see it as a temptation and part of the fallenness of humanity, not as the way God made us.
It is sort of like me saying "I feel the inclination to steal." And rather than resisting the temptation I give into it and say "this is the way God made me." That is to say, simply because I have an inclination towards something or feel strongly drawn to it does not mean that God made me to be that way.
Now, I say that because in the Orthodox church we see both stealing and homosexuality as sins, but I realize that you do not see homosexuality as a sin so I do not mean to offend you by making a parallel with stealing, I was just comparing two things that the Orthodox church considers to be sins.
Don't worry about it, you have not offended me at all. I also have anxiety so I understand!

You may absolutely friend me! I will friend you back, I have enjoyed our discussions :)
-Thea M. Frederick
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Thea Frederick wrote: 05 Jan 2021, 18:00
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 04 Jan 2021, 14:23
Thea Frederick wrote: 04 Jan 2021, 12:11

You have not offended me either, and I appreciate your willingness to debate with me calmly and kindly (some people aren't able to do that).
I understand where you are coming from (though I have never experienced it and cannot know what it feels like, I can understand how you would feel) and I am sorry if you feel like an outcast. Honestly, I do understand how it feels to be somewhat of an outcast. As I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian my church practices are much more ascetical and different from other denominations (as the practices have been preserved over hundreds of years, you would not see our worship and think "modern" :-), it is full of old traditions and long preserved beauty. As such, my immediate family and I are always sort of the "black sheep" of the family. The ones who have different church practices, who fast, confess, and have many different services. So we are seen as sort of strange to other people.
Just to be clear, my church does not judge people who are homosexual. We do not believe it is what God wants and we do not believe it is how God made us to be, but we do not judge people who do. We love them and pray for them. There are some churches that would hate and reject those people, but we are not one of them.
We see it more as a state of sin and fallenness of the human race. As such, it would be a temptation that one would fight against rather than accept as the way God made them. But as long as the person is fighting and confessing their sins and following God's commandments they are allowed to participate in the sacraments of the church. But the Orthodox Church does not hate homosexual people nor does it judge them (individual Orthodox Christians may judge, but that is their own sin which they need to fight).
I understand that the above beliefs are not ones that you share. I am just explaining how my church views it (I am not trying to insult you or judge you, just help you understand where my beliefs come from).
So, to address your question, the reason I say we must agree to disagree is because I can't agree that God made us that way and I can't agree that it does not harm people as I see it as a state of sin. But, I do appreciate your respect for other churches and other lifestyles and while I may not agree with your decisions, I do respect the free will that God gave each of us and I do not judge you for your decisions.
I have to tell you, I immensely appreciate you discussions with me. Like you said, even if our stance on the matters we discuss do not change, discussing widens our perspectives and helps us understand each other better. It is one of the reasons I enjoy discussing controversial topics with people. Thank you :-)
I very much enjoy these discussions I have had with you and I am glad I have not offended you. People don't always have to agree to get along and I am glad we have been able to debate without judgement or anger, but rather understanding and kindness!

I am glad that your church doesn't judge, even if you don't agree with my beliefs. I guess a reason I have a different view is because a) I am gay so I find it hard to see other people's points of view on homosexuality and b) my church is the Church of England (I'm British!) which has is recent years changed their stance on homosexuality! Being very interested in sociology, I love hearing about different denominations' beliefs and debating, it helps me to learn more about the world!
May I ask why you believe homosexuality hurts people? (and also say that being gay is not a decision, I love my girlfriend very much and I don't believe love is a choice!). Again I don't mean any offense by questioning your beliefs, I am just interested, most Christians I talk to about this don't like to debate, but rather tell me I am going to hell, which is a bit hurtful really (but at least I'll be warm! :lol: ). - I'm sorry to keep repeating 'I hope I haven't offended you', I have severe anxiety so worry about hurting people a lot :cry:

Also, may I ask if I can add you as a friend on here? I like you! (no homo don't worry! I'm in a committed relationship! :P )
Ooh, England! I love England but I have never been, I'm DYING to visit! Where in England do you live?

So, since my church sees homosexuality as a state of sin we believe that it hurts the souls of the people who are engaging in that sin. Sin is separating oneself from God because sin is the absence of God, and separating ourselves from God is the worst thing we can do. And it isn't that you can't love someone who is the same sex as you, it's just that it would be a different kind of love. More of a sisterly love. Sexuality would remain between a woman and her husband (or no one, if one didn't have a husband). So if one found themselves sexually attracted to someone of their own sex, in the Orthodox church this would be something to fight against and talk to their priest about for guidance rather than except. This is because we see it as a temptation and part of the fallenness of humanity, not as the way God made us.
It is sort of like me saying "I feel the inclination to steal." And rather than resisting the temptation I give into it and say "this is the way God made me." That is to say, simply because I have an inclination towards something or feel strongly drawn to it does not mean that God made me to be that way.
Now, I say that because in the Orthodox church we see both stealing and homosexuality as sins, but I realize that you do not see homosexuality as a sin so I do not mean to offend you by making a parallel with stealing, I was just comparing two things that the Orthodox church considers to be sins.
Don't worry about it, you have not offended me at all. I also have anxiety so I understand!

You may absolutely friend me! I will friend you back, I have enjoyed our discussions :)
It's definitely worth a visit when it's not raining or when the pandemic is over, it is truly beautiful! I am from a small town just outside London called Reading!

Ah I understand! While I do not agree with you, I understand where you are coming from! You have not offended me by making a parallel with stealing don't worry. - side note: I find understanding someone's perspective allows you to debate without causing offense because you know the right things to say and the right way to put them!
Let me put my views (from personal experience) into perspective so you understand where I am coming from! The way you are attracted to men, is the way I feel towards women. It is not a feeling I can help. With stealing, it is an action that is consciously made and you know it is wrong. No one is born with the need to steal stuff. With being gay, it is just the same with being straight. I was born with a different reaction towards people that you do! For you, men give you serotonin, dopamine, oxytocin etc. (i.e. the attractions that together are known as love!). For me, I get the same reactions, just towards women! I believe that God made me that way because it is a feeling that you are born with. It is the hormones and the chemicals that everybody has, just towards a different gender! This does not mean that I don't think men are pretty, I can find them attractive, I am just not attractED to them, just like you may see women as pretty, but you don't feel any attraction to them! I hope that makes sense? I don't mean to change your perspective, just simply help you see mine!

I have now friended you! I have enjoyed our discussions too! :)
"I decided a while ago not to deny myself the simpler pleasures of existence" - Augustus Waters (The Fault in Our Stars)
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Post by CGO »

Although the author comes from a Catholic background, I Don't think his opinions are limited to the experience of the Catholic Church alone. He did carry out an extensive study on religion as a whole to come down to his conclusions.
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Post by Timothy Rucinski »

There's no question that Hunt is addressing the concept of sin from a Roman Catholic point of view. Having been there, I can identify with his background. Personally, I'm not certain as to whether or not it carries through to other representations of Christology. And although I am not really a believer in "sin," preferring instead to look at human behavior as either reinforcing or refusing one's humanity rather than committing deeds to have an effect on one's soul, I do agree that selfishness is the basis of most of what's wrong with society. He is the first author in my experience to dig deeply into the selfishness aspect and create a valid, compelling argument.
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Post by Praise GodWord »

We must not mistake this. The church, even the Catholic Church does not make you feel guilty for your sins, they only make you realize it. Seeing your sin and feeling guilty for it are two different issues altogether. My experience in the Church has not been one of condemnation, but one of realization of my need for help.
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Post by MayorE »

Although the author was writing from a catholic point of view, I think his generalization extends to most churches today, as they all preach almost the same thing against sin making you feel guilty about it
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Post by hlhunt33 »

A point of clarification: my book speaks to all religion for one direct and simple reason. All religions speak to a God, god, gods. However, all religions are illegitimate because none has defined the essence of their god. Therefore their god is a myth. I defined God as "A Perfect Rational Being". I am now allowed to explore that 'rationality'. Furthermore, I am allowed to discredit all religion as having no foundation in fact. Please remember; nothing has meaning without an essential definition.
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Post by Heidadela »

He might be speaking for the catholic church but the idea of sins making us guilty is a universal experience. Ithink his ideas are for the universal church, not just the catholic church alone.
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Post by zulfiyya »

I believe any church or formal structure representing organized religion is there to make people feel guilty about their "sins". This includes church, catholic church, mosque, etc. The reason I think that is because these formal structures and the highest respected person in them (priest for example) teach the holy book with absolute undeniability. They claim their teachings as absolute truths that cannot be denied. Given that pretty much every holy book has sins written to shame people for really stupid things (like being gay or having sex before marriage), I would say all organized formal structures that represent any holy book are all equally terrible.
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Post by zulfiyya »

I think Churches would probably vary from country to country. It all depends on who is running the church (who is head so like the priest of pastor or whoever) and what the laws for churches and religion are in each specific country. I'm sure that organized religion cannot be put into a one-size-fits-all mold as he tried to.
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Post by Fajarr »

I don't think what the author tries to imply is limited only to Catholic church, or only to the Catholicism/Christianity related institutions, but for all the religions. Nowadays almost all religious teachings are corrupted because many of the religious leaders have become political puppets and they bend the religions as per their political superiors needs, in order to obtain mundane values. So the facts are universal
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