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In chapter 20, talking about Jesus, Hunt (the author) completely rejects the writings surrounding Jesus's genealogy, His conception and certain aspects of His life as told by the apostles; they are all fabrications, all part of the "Jesus Story." He doesn't accept "any of the so-called prophetic predictions in the Old Testament." He contends that the virgin birth is highly unlikely, and he proposes that Joseph was the natural father of Jesus. According to him, Jesus was a child prodigy, "in which case, He would have studied and understood the scriptures at a young age much better than the wisest old sages."

Um, the same scriptures with the incredible stories and so-called prophetic predictions??

So we have this completely human Jesus, whom Hunt also points out was selfish (and therefore sinful, because according to him, sin = selfishness, right?) So this human, sinful/selfish Jesus (who "knew a messiah was to come") came to the understanding that "His Spirit and the Father's Spirit were one," and that "He and His Father must be Perfect Love...He saw Himself as the Son of God, the Sacrificial Lamb who must pay the price of Perfect Love and Perfect Justice."

In chapter 21, Hunt states that it is his only faith that Jesus died for our salvation.

Having read all that, here's what I'm wondering:

1: Considering the author's notion of a completely human Jesus who was just really smart in his time, does it then mean that anyone could have done what He did, just by studying some scriptures and coming to certain "understandings"?

2. How much sense does it make that a selfish/sinful man died for mankind's salvation?

I don't think I agree with the author, but I guess Jesus dying would make him selfless? Maybe the author is mixing his views with Jewish beliefs (particularly since the Old Testament is part of Jewish scripture too)? They don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, they are still waiting for their saviour I think? Maybe Jesus was entirely human, he was God's human son I think, or if not, I guess the best way to describe him is a demigod. I don't know if anyone can do what Jesus did, many claim that they could (e.g. Jim Jones) but they ended up being phoney, so maybe Jesus was a 'chosen one' or something. I have never known whether or not I believe on the virgin birth, because (call me a heretic) wouldn't impregnating a woman against her will be rape, God or not? Maybe Joseph was the father but they didn't announce the pregnancy as they weren't married at the time, so it would have been frowned upon, and were just lucky enough that they were told that their child was going to be the 'chosen one' or something?

I have no idea if any of that makes sense, but I can see why the author has problems believing some of the stuff in the Bible!

Your questions are there because the book contradicts itself clearly.

If you, the author can see clearly that the bible has fabrications, and Jesus was a child prodigy who studied the bible better than any other, then wouldn't he have seen that there were fabrications in it?as a child prodigy, he should have.

Personally I don't believe Jesus died on the cross for whatever reason, but I know Jesus was not selfish, he was beautiful inside and out.

As for the author, if you believe someone chose to sacrifice himself for others, how can u say an altruistic person is selfish???
Makes little sense.

I think this book was a book of contradictions. I felt that Hunt went on a rant about the Catholic church and this is what came of that. The Catholic Church is not the same as other churches, their belief system is different, so Hunt is inferring what he wants to about Jesus, without any real research to back up his claims. We have to be careful of people spouting truth, without any real evidence.

cd20 wrote: ↑26 Dec 2020, 14:51 I think this book was a book of contradictions. I felt that Hunt went on a rant about the Catholic church and this is what came of that. The Catholic Church is not the same as other churches, their belief system is different, so Hunt is inferring what he wants to about Jesus, without any real research to back up his claims. We have to be careful of people spouting truth, without any real evidence.

I couldn't agree more. I feel like in his quest to get away from all the things he's learned about and come to resent/reject about the Catholic church, he's determined that he will see Jesus as he wants to and that's that. I'm just amazed that he would settle on the conclusion that Jesus was selfish.

zainherb wrote: ↑25 Dec 2020, 18:30 Your questions are there because the book contradicts itself clearly.

If you, the author can see clearly that the bible has fabrications, and Jesus was a child prodigy who studied the bible better than any other, then wouldn't he have seen that there were fabrications in it?as a child prodigy, he should have.

Personally I don't believe Jesus died on the cross for whatever reason, but I know Jesus was not selfish, he was beautiful inside and out.

As for the author, if you believe someone chose to sacrifice himself for others, how can u say an altruistic person is selfish???
Makes little sense.

Well, according to Hunt, Jesus was selfish because he had to eat, sleep, eliminate, be clothed and sheltered, and communicate just as all living creatures do. He says that all these activities are necessarily directed at self, and by their nature are evil because they put self before others. (Page 68)

Still, I agree with you. His arguments make very little sense (to me).

I agree with Maddie Atkinson, in that I felt the author, not only in this instance, but often sounded as if he was referencing his Jewish upbringing. I expected, just from the small description of the book, that it was going to be more unbias than I personally took it. In my opinion, I can see the direction and understood the point as a whole, but it was a bit much at times.

I think regardless of whether you belive Jesus was the son if God or just well versed in scripture does not take away from his selfless actions. Therefore you cannot say he was selfish based of his acts.

I don't agree with Hunt,i mean he had a lot of contradictions ,its like he brought back the jewish belief about jesus ,he mixed the old testament and the new testament

That belief does contradict itself. Also I know that the Catholic belief is that Mary did not ever marry. It is protestants who say she married Joseph.
It is not unscientific to believe that Mary was a virgin at the time of birth, since God created people, science and miracles and do such things. So many things happen out of the ordinary realm of what we know to be "scientific," there may ne general rules but we often here of things happen occasionally outside of those rules. ..

I disagree with the author about Joseph being the biological father of Jesus and that Jesus was a child prodigy and the Bible had fabrications. If Jesus was just smart, he would have understood the scriptures were fabricated and would not give his life to mankind. If he was selfish, he wouldn’t give his life up for mankind but he was selfless and that was why he gave his life up.

It makes no sense. How can a selfish man wake up one morning and decide to be crucified? How do you explain the events that happened on that day? Some forms of research prove that God exists. Regardless of your faith, it is wrong to say that Jesus was selfish. You may disregard the miracles, but that doesn't change the fact that resurrection of the dead is only registered in the new testament. By the way, why did Jesus ask people to stay quiet when he performed some miracles? He was selfless.

Confused? Please refer to my definition of selfishness which is, 'anything directed at self". All so-called sin comes under that giant umbrella of selfishness. Jesus was selfish in the sense that he required food, drink, clothing, shelter. He had to breath, sleep and eliminate---all activities directed at self. Extremes of selfishness have been decried by society and classified as sin. In order to get the Israelites attention, Moses had to re-present the Ten Commandments (his rules for societal order) to them as God's commands---it worked for a little while. Then the loopholes had to be filled in---they still are, even as I speak. I hope this helps. Hilary Hunt

Is he perhaps saying that he didn't sacrifice himself for others, rather he was killed and died due to violence, which is terrible but his death doesn't automatically make him self-less, just a victim of violence. The story that "he died for our sins" could have been fabricated later on to give meaning to his life and death. Similar to how we try to find meaning in the bad things that happen to us.

I won't agree that Jesus died for the redemption of sinful men as a sinful man. God had always looked for sinless and spotless being to be sacrificed for men to live and I think it was only Jesus that could fit in.That is why he was referred to as the sacrificial Lamb in the Bible.