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Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 12 Jan 2021, 10:48
by Harty Muli
Ahbed Nadir wrote: ↑12 Jan 2021, 04:39
Slater678 wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 11:30
Ahbed Nadir wrote: ↑08 Jan 2021, 05:58
Yes, I would agree that these palza definitely had an effect on Embon's life as he did experience a life of underachievement. The author made a very good attempt but i feel she could have illustrated it better.
Yes I agree with you because for one, he didn't get a single certificate in spite of attending grammar school, high school and college.
Yes exactly. All through his life from grammar school all the way to college he achieved nothing nd had no certificate to show for it. He eventually had to return to Japan where he gave up totally on ever achieving anything. The palza definitely had n effect on him.
Quite true. Though other might argue Embon eventually became a freedom fighter, which is more important. It may be further argued that it's better to sacrifice a certificate achievable under a hostile regime, and go out to the bush to fight for your freedom and that of your countrymen.
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 12 Jan 2021, 12:10
by Bridgetbruso99
I do whether it was the actual superstitions or if the thought of them set a tone. Even though there are times in the book that this comes up, it also is not completely harped on continually.
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 12 Jan 2021, 12:40
by Excel 2021
I would agree that these palza certainly had an effect on Embon's life. As a graduate of and a very learned orrson of high repute, it is strange that such a person should be living on handouts.
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 12 Jan 2021, 20:40
by María Andrea Fernández Sepúlveda
Exactly. As some of the above members mention, the palza worked because the adults that surrounded him, and later on Embon himself, believed in them. If you raise a kid like a brat, as Lady Sougyon did (even if she did so with the best of intentions) he will end up an unmotivated adult, in the best of circumstances. It is actually surprising that his life didn't end up worse, considering how he was raised. Also, at the time, mental issues and illnesses were not considered. We don't know if his physical illness affected Embon's mental health, for example. Or if he was such a prodigy, perhaps some adjacent neurodiversity that was not considered existed.
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 00:52
by Ahbed Nadir
Slater678 wrote: ↑12 Jan 2021, 10:48
Ahbed Nadir wrote: ↑12 Jan 2021, 04:39
Slater678 wrote: ↑11 Jan 2021, 11:30
Yes I agree with you because for one, he didn't get a single certificate in spite of attending grammar school, high school and college.
Yes exactly. All through his life from grammar school all the way to college he achieved nothing nd had no certificate to show for it. He eventually had to return to Japan where he gave up totally on ever achieving anything. The palza definitely had n effect on him.
Quite true. Though other might argue Embon eventually became a freedom fighter, which is more important. It may be further argued that it's better to sacrifice a certificate achievable under a hostile regime, and go out to the bush to fight for your freedom and that of your countrymen.
While Embon being a freedom fighter is an achievement of sorts, others might argue that any man can fight, any man can strain himself physically, any man can kill whereas mental capability or skill from education is the more valued achievement especially in this day and age of technological advancement and civilization. Fighters and warriors have less and less value than say a doctor or an engineer. So I would not particularly count that as an achievement.
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 03:38
by Nqobile Mashinini Tshabalala
Well, looking at how bright his future was and where he ended up in life, it is possible that he was affected. His life was mediocre, he let a girl he loved go, married one he didn't like, fell sick, and had no ambition.
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 10:04
by Harty Muli
Bridgetbruso99 wrote: ↑12 Jan 2021, 12:10
I do whether it was the actual superstitions or if the thought of them set a tone. Even though there are times in the book that this comes up, it also is not completely harped on continually.
In my opinion I think the thought of the superstitions set the tone of the actions especially of the protagonist, Embon, because he had been made to believe by his mom that "no one escapes his fate under the palza." Even though not all his friends believed this (like Hain), I thought the tone of the entire story had already been set.
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 10:10
by Harty Muli
Excel 2021 wrote: ↑12 Jan 2021, 12:40
I would agree that these palza certainly had an effect on Embon's life. As a graduate of and a very learned orrson of high repute, it is strange that such a person should be living on handouts.
On your first sentence, Embon says "I happen to know people around me whose lives coincide with the predictions of their birth signs." Without knowing it, Embon might just have been talking about himself.
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 10:16
by Harty Muli
Lunastella wrote: ↑12 Jan 2021, 20:40
Exactly. As some of the above members mention, the palza worked because the adults that surrounded him, and later on Embon himself, believed in them. If you raise a kid like a brat, as Lady Sougyon did (even if she did so with the best of intentions) he will end up an unmotivated adult, in the best of circumstances. It is actually surprising that his life didn't end up worse, considering how he was raised. Also, at the time, mental issues and illnesses were not considered. We don't know if his physical illness affected Embon's mental health, for example. Or if he was such a prodigy, perhaps some adjacent neurodiversity that was not considered existed.
Yes I agree the illness might have affected him psychologically or mentally. But what we are actually told is that after the illness he became lazy because he didn't want to exert himself (part of the reason for this was because of the doctor's advice and another because his family was rich).
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 10:25
by Harty Muli
Ahbed Nadir wrote: ↑13 Jan 2021, 00:52
Slater678 wrote: ↑12 Jan 2021, 10:48
Ahbed Nadir wrote: ↑12 Jan 2021, 04:39
Yes exactly. All through his life from grammar school all the way to college he achieved nothing nd had no certificate to show for it. He eventually had to return to Japan where he gave up totally on ever achieving anything. The palza definitely had n effect on him.
Quite true. Though other might argue Embon eventually became a freedom fighter, which is more important. It may be further argued that it's better to sacrifice a certificate achievable under a hostile regime, and go out to the bush to fight for your freedom and that of your countrymen.
While Embon being a freedom fighter is an achievement of sorts, others might argue that any man can fight, any man can strain himself physically, any man can kill whereas mental capability or skill from education is the more valued achievement especially in this day and age of technological advancement and civilization. Fighters and warriors have less and less value than say a doctor or an engineer. So I would not particularly count that as an achievement.
Well, I'll beg to disagree for the simple fact that Embon and his fellow countrymen were under Japanese occupation. In those circumstances, fighting was a more honorable (and therefore "successful") endeavor than to work e.g. as a doctor or engineer, for the enemy (unless one of course didn't mind being called a traitor). Don't you agree?
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 13 Jan 2021, 10:34
by Harty Muli
Nqobile771 wrote: ↑13 Jan 2021, 03:38
Well, looking at how bright his future was and where he ended up in life, it is possible that he was affected. His life was mediocre, he let a girl he loved go, married one he didn't like, fell sick, and had no ambition.
I totally agree. In my opinion, losing Mitzuko, the Japanese girl who saved him at the ski slope, portrayed him in a bad light because theirs was love at first sight. Even after they accidentally met again in Korea, he still couldn't gather enough courage to tell her how much he loved her. Then follows the other blunders as you've correctly stated.
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 15 Jan 2021, 11:20
by simodeeh
I completely agree with you, I mean, look at him, despite having gone to study grammar, he did not acquire any certificate. The plaza thing also made him believe that he never achieves anything
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 15 Jan 2021, 13:51
by Twylla
I don't think he was an underachiever at all. He was a child prodigy all through school. Then his life was transformed from a pampered spoiled self-centered prince to a revolutionary who would have willingly given his life in the fight for the independence of Korea. He wasn't successful with money or fame, but he accomplished good things in his life. I think the "palza" has the same credibility as our astrology - none.
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 15 Jan 2021, 16:03
by enna_idEsrun
I do think that the author brought out the point of Embon's underachievement satisfactorily. While demonstrating Embon's giftedness we saw the author demonstrate how, as by some strange misfortune, every opportunity for Embon to receive an accolade evaded him. This way the author skillfully illustrated Embon's portentous 'palza'.
Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?
Posted: 15 Jan 2021, 20:43
by Swirliegirlie
It seems that Embon was able to come out against his Palza signs. I think he achieved a lot in this novel. But maybe that because he heard a lot as a kid how much his signs predict failure.