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Some characters such as Embon's father accepted being poor as a way a life before he was forced to marry. Some characters accept poverty because of the freedom they are allowed to explore. What is your opinion about poverty as a way of life, as a part of Korean culture? How did these views take part in Embon's story?

Being poor, according to the Korean culture, can be at times conclusive. In relation to the big social gap between people given in the book, many remain poor due to their virtue. They believe miracles happen to those who become suddenly rich like the folk explained about Embon's father. Some people like Hob do not want to be rich if it means being married to someone he does not love and following someone he did not believe. In Korea, poor can only dwell at nothing or do small jobs to feed their tummy. They can be servants to the rich and face slavery till the end of their lives.

As unfortunate as poverty is, I think it was the better decision for some of the characters. Like Embon's father, he chose to not let his arranged marriage dictate him. It isn't what he wanted and no sum of money would make him change his mind. I am not fond of the high priority we put on money here in America so i thought it was a nice part of the Korean culture. Especially the aspect that most people that chose to stay in poverty did so to stay together as a family or staying true to their hearts.

Personally, I think being poor is not an issue. It's how we accept it. The people at the Southside, where Lady Sougyon visited after attending King Gojong's party, were quite content with their life. Embon's father was also fine with his poverty before his marriage. However, I don't think the poor's mindsets affect Embon's at all. As we see, he is quite bossy, be it when he was a kid or when he studies in Japan. Embon is a noble, and unlike his mother, he takes it for granted that his servants are to obey him. In fact, this is more or less how the poor are treated, whether it's in Korean culture or anywhere else.

I found yangbans surprising. They consciously choose to be poor, as they would find anything else other than government employment to be vulgar. They don't go after wealth, but instead choose to expand their intellectual skills. At least, that was how the earlier yangbans operated. It's noble, and it's fascinating how some of them can keep it up even as the world changes into something that doesn't suit this kind of thinking anymore. I'd love to read more about their origin.

But I found Embon's father to be more surprising... and tragic. I think his decision was mostly affected by emotions, which is usually a bad thing. He might've given up too early on himself, which says a lot about the good and bad about him. But I hate him more for being a horrible father to Embon.

For the people who chose to be poor for the sake of their "freedom", though... I think it says a lot about what kind of world we already had at that time. It's the same as we have today, one that is driven by productiveness and profit. They probably saw something vile about it and didn't want to lose themselves in it, which is something that I respect. I still believe that they didn't deserve to starve and live only by surviving, though.

I think it says a lot about the culture that poverty actually results in more personal freedom than wealth. The idea a person would have to choose to stay poor to marry the person they love is truly tragic. As a western person this is pretty foreign. The vast majority of people in the west are free to marry anyone they choose.

While reading this book, I noticed that the people who were born into poverty usually stayed that way and didn't really expect to move up the social hierarchy. For the most part, they accepted their lot in life.

In the case of Embon's father, things were different because, although he lived in poverty, he had royal ancestry. And that is why he was chosen to marry Embon's mother.

I found it quite shocking and dehumanizing that the poorest people were not given names. Two servants in Lady Sougyon's household were nameless until the Lady chose to call them April and May.

We have no control over what type of families (wealthy, middle class, or poor) we are born into, and we don't always have many opportunities available to us. (This was illustrated in the book.) But we can make the best of what we have.

I think Korean, and more generally, East Asian societies put a significant stigma on poverty. Personally, I lived in Japan for almost 3 years and I could notice that poor people were generally considered to be on the fringes of society, almost an invisible presence. While being poor definitely comes with multiple difficulties, it is also possible to find a sense of "liberation" from having almost nothing. After all, the nature of desire is unlimited and there is no point where we can ever be satisfied with our riches or possessions. Without romanticizing poverty, the only silver lining about it may precisely be the lack of having, and hence, of being possessed by possessions.

Thereeeeeeeeeee is more to this than meets the eye. Poverty in many parts of the world is something people try to escape from often at all cost. But not in korea. Here being poor comes with certain privileges which others, elsewhere enjoy irrespective of their financial status.
It goes to tell us the kind of culture the Koreans oractise and how it contrasts that man of many other nations.

The book portrays a strong social difference between the rich and poor. It portrays an idea of- Once a poor always a poor until a miracle happens. This is the basic idea of how the characters in the story were displayed. Many people strive and struggle their whole lives to provide for their family but are never considered as superior. When they work as servants at royal families their situation gets even worse. They are harassed and ill-treated. But the worst part is, they cannot complain. They just need to go on with their works. In Korea, even the poor does not a have a broad mentality of becoming rich. Even the villagers think that it is just miracle if someone gets a good job or a good life in general. They have just accepted to be poor and never be in level with the rich/royals.

Personally, I think it's the mindset of the people that was the real issue. Most people who are born into poverty choose to remain in poverty because they feel that as a result of their birth they have no hope of success and as such there is no point in struggling against their lot.

lavkathleen wrote: ↑23 Jan 2021, 06:25 I found yangbans surprising. They consciously choose to be poor, as they would find anything else other than government employment to be vulgar. They don't go after wealth, but instead choose to expand their intellectual skills. At least, that was how the earlier yangbans operated. It's noble, and it's fascinating how some of them can keep it up even as the world changes into something that doesn't suit this kind of thinking anymore. I'd love to read more about their origin.

But I found Embon's father to be more surprising... and tragic. I think his decision was mostly affected by emotions, which is usually a bad thing. He might've given up too early on himself, which says a lot about the good and bad about him. But I hate him more for being a horrible father to Embon.

Your view is my view exactly. Yangbans were such an oddity to me. Its almost inconceivable to think of a people content in poverty or mediocrity. While their pursuit of intelligence was quite the noble and respectable venture, they could have done that and still been successful. Embon's father was a sad example of the bad side of the yangban's way of life.

The poor were seen as an essential part of the Korean society. In their mind there could be no poor without the rich and there could be no rich without the law. Most citizens simply accepted the lot they were born with, whether rich or poor.

Shieldmaiden88 wrote: ↑28 Jan 2021, 10:42 I think it says a lot about the culture that poverty actually results in more personal freedom than wealth. The idea a person would have to choose to stay poor to marry the person they love is truly tragic. As a western person this is pretty foreign. The vast majority of people in the west are free to marry anyone they choose.

Yes indeed. A poor person theoretically enjoyed their life far more than a rich person as a rich person had all sorts of rules and expectations set upon them that they could not afford to ignore. Their life was predestined and set unlike that of the poor who had the freedom to pursue their dreams. Not to advocate for poverty, seeing as despite their freedom they were still after all all, the poor.