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WADonnelly wrote: ↑02 May 2021, 11:40 I think that the author seems to believe that God purposefully deceives us to enable free will. I believe it is a mistake to take some of the bible so literally. For example, the creation of the universe in six days does not necessarily mean six days as we measure time. God is after all outside of time. The idea that God deceives to enable free will does not make much sense when you consider why certain things in the bible would be backed by science and others not.

I completely agree with you. I do not think these two statements are related, but that the author has caused us to think by putting them together. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

All of creation and the works of God point freely to His existence and so I do not understand how the uncertainty of his existence fosters freewill. However I know that despite this certainty of existence God still grants us the freedom to freely believe in Him.

Kennedy NC wrote: ↑04 May 2021, 04:04 All of creation and the works of God point freely to His existence and so I do not understand how the uncertainty of his existence fosters freewill. However I know that despite this certainty of existence God still grants us the freedom to freely believe in Him.

I agree, I do not think these two concepts are related, although it has made for some interesting discussions. I am thankful that we do have free will, and that God grants us the freedom to believe in Him. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.

I do not agree with this that God being hidden has to do with free will. God being hidden goes back to the fall of man.i think a better question would be why are we hiding from God. We see God in all creation.

I agree. I think the two are separate issues. And, I love your question, why are hiding from God. That is good. I also agree that we do see God in all creation and I wonder how those who don't believe in God think of creation and the beauty all around us. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

There are so many theories regarding the world being created in six days and is our free will the reason God doesn't reveal himself to us. First of all do we really know what God considers six days? In His timetable six days could be a completely different amount of time than six days is to us. In regards to God revealing himself to us, I believe he does if we just pay attention. Maybe he doesn't reveal himself corporeally, but in other less obvious ways. If God revealed His person, so to speak, to us I believe that would take away our Faith, a choice, which would directly effect our free will to believe. So to answer the proposed question I would have to agree with the author in regards to free will if God wasn't hidden from us, but I'm not certain about the six days.

Danelle Cale wrote: ↑10 May 2021, 23:53 There are so many theories regarding the world being created in six days and is our free will the reason God doesn't reveal himself to us. First of all do we really know what God considers six days? In His timetable six days could be a completely different amount of time than six days is to us. In regards to God revealing himself to us, I believe he does if we just pay attention. Maybe he doesn't reveal himself corporeally, but in other less obvious ways. If God revealed His person, so to speak, to us I believe that would take away our Faith, a choice, which would directly effect our free will to believe. So to answer the proposed question I would have to agree with the author in regards to free will if God wasn't hidden from us, but I'm not certain about the six days.

Hi Danelle, thank you so much for sharing your perspective. I agree that we don't know exactly what God considered six days, His timetable could be different from ours. I love how you said, "If God revealed His person, so to speak, to us I believe that would take away our Faith, a choice, which would directly effect our free will to believe." I completely agree. I do not believe that free will and God creating in six days as being related, but it certainly has made for interesting conversation!

I agree with the theory because it gives people a choice whether to believe or dismiss His existence

KapuKapu wrote: ↑18 May 2021, 02:22 I agree with the theory because it gives people a choice whether to believe or dismiss His existence

I think the two issues here are not related, but I do believe we have free will and that God has given us the ability to choose to follow Him or not. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I may be wrong, but this sounds like it's saying if it's sure God exists, there wouldn't be free will. I question this way of thinking and wonder why the creator would design a system that's so hard to succeed. Why not make it easier if he truly loves all?

Folushour wrote: ↑19 May 2021, 09:38 I may be wrong, but this sounds like it's saying if it's sure God exists, there wouldn't be free will. I question this way of thinking and wonder why the creator would design a system that's so hard to succeed. Why not make it easier if he truly loves all?

I believe we have free will, but I do not believe it has to do with whether or not we can physically see God. In my opinion, the Creator has not designed a system that is hard to succeed, but He has designed a system where we get to choose, which is the beauty of free will. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

cd20 wrote: ↑07 Mar 2021, 14:33

Maddie Atkinson wrote: ↑07 Mar 2021, 07:36 I think that God doesn't reveal himself due to free will, but also because, if you're following the Bible literally, He said that He would never get involved in our affairs again after the Great Flood. While I do not believe this flood ever happened literally, it could be a story to help explain why He doesn't want to reveal Himself.

Hey Maddie! I agree that one reason God might not reveal Himself is due to free well. I do follow the Bible literally, but I believe that God said He would never destroy humankind again (Genesis 8:21), not get involved in our affairs. I think God is very active in our lives today! I also believe the flood happened literally happened, and I know there is evidence that supports it, but right off hand, I can't think of it (face-palm!).

Please don't follow the Bible literally, because if you do some research about the Bible's history you will learn that it lost a lot of original meaning due to all the translation during the history. Have you heard about Karen Armstrong's book "The Case For God"? You may want to have a look into it, it's a well researched book on the subject and it brings a lot of knowledge. Keep in mind I don't say to not follow the Bible, only to not treat it too literally as it was changed so many times by so many people till now.

cd20 wrote: ↑06 Mar 2021, 18:52 The authors explain that the reason everything looks like it happened naturally over a long period of time is "Because if it were obvious that the world had been created in six days, there would be no free will, no way to doubt the existence of the Creator. God is hidden so that we can function as human beings with free will." What do you think of this? Do you agree or disagree? Why?

Lately I've came across a bit different theory and I like it a lot. It says not that God is hidden, but that he/she wanted to get to know his/hers own nature (in a way that physics assumes that there must be observator for the observed object to even exist). So he/she kind of divided him/herself - by spliting into the world we know: into people, animals, trees, clouds, mountains, Sun and heavens - everything you can think about - so that he/she could finally see him/herself and what he/she really is. This also goes with what Bible says about God creating humans on his own image.
This theory assumes than that we all are having this God's particle in ourselves - the God is in us all, in the world around us - the world as a whole is the God him/herself. That also means we have free will because someways our will is also God's will, and if he/she wouldn't be free than who would..
That would mean the God is not hiding - he/she's in all of us and we are him/her. Isn't it a beautiful thought? What do you think?

I think that God wouldn't have to hide for us to humans to have free will but at the same time if there is a god, free will would be the only explanation as to why we aren't aware of him. We have science to explain a lot of phenomenon that we couldn't before and also an all loving god cannot really explain suffering so it is truly the only explanation if there is a god.

Anna Bookowski wrote: ↑24 May 2021, 12:19
Hey Maddie! I agree that one reason God might not reveal Himself is due to free well. I do follow the Bible literally, but I believe that God said He would never destroy humankind again (Genesis 8:21), not get involved in our affairs. I think God is very active in our lives today! I also believe the flood happened literally happened, and I know there is evidence that supports it, but right off hand, I can't think of it (face-palm!).

Please don't follow the Bible literally, because if you do some research about the Bible's history you will learn that it lost a lot of original meaning due to all the translation during the history. Have you heard about Karen Armstrong's book "The Case For God"? You may want to have a look into it, it's a well researched book on the subject and it brings a lot of knowledge. Keep in mind I don't say to not follow the Bible, only to not treat it too literally as it was changed so many times by so many people till now.
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Not all parts of the Bible are literal, some are figurative as well. I have done a TON of research on the Bible, including classes and having a Master's Degree in Religious Education. I do not believe that has changed so much that it should not be taken literally, as in we follow the ten commandments, love our neighbor as ourselves, etc. I have not heard of Karen Armstrong but will look her up, thanks for the recommendation. Thanks for sharing your opinion.