scientific and/or secular approach

Use this forum to discuss the March 2021 Book of the month, "The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan" by Daniel Friedmann, Dania Sheldon
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Stephanie Runyon
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Re: scientific and/or secular approach

Post by Stephanie Runyon »

[quote="Maddie Atkinson" post_id=1635250 time=1614777160 user_id=2006511]
[quote=Mounce574 post_id=1635121 time=1614752719 user_id=1424579]
[quote="Maddie Atkinson" post_id=1634760 time=1614688191 user_id=2006511]


That's okay that you believe that God created everything! Personally I believe that the Big Bang was created by God and everything else from then on was His plan. The molecules never stopped, the universe is forever expanding and expanding and background radiation is the echoing sounds of the aftermath of the Big Bang. The Earth is spinning on an axis yes, but it is travelling in a straight line, it is the gravitational pull of the sun that keeps it going round it. If the sun's gravity suddenly turned off, we would just fly off in a straight line! So personally I believe that God is the reason for all of that. Everything is perfectly placed and God made it so, but He did that through the Big Bang, in my opinion!
[/quote]
I think it is plausible that the Earth might have been created that way but what caused the sun?
[/quote]

How do you mean? Creationists believe that the sun would have been created when God said 'let there be light'. Those who believe in the big bang will believe that, like other stars, it was created through dust and gas particles (formed from a gas cloud expanding and exploding into a supernova) in space having a gravitational pull towards each other, and when they collided they started to form elements through nuclear fusion, creating hydrogen and helium at the very core of it, and it is this that the sun is burning which is why it is on fire. The denser these particles get, the stronger the gravitational pull, which is what causes us to orbit around the sun, keeping us going in a circle, despite the earth's molecules wanting to go in a straight line.
[/quote]
Okay, I think I misunderstood what you said. So in theory God said let there be light and that caused the Big Bang part. But what I am thinking, if both are correct then maybe the Big Bang was slower because he didn't create Earth until the next day? Instead of what I pictured as a sudden explosion might actually be a slow expansion over days?
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Post by Wamakima »

I believe the Bible is a Jewish storybook. I also believe that science has provided a lot of answers that the Bible cannot provide. But still when looking at the solar system and how earth has been specifically designed to provide life on earth, I am led to belief there's a powerful, intelligent scientific being out there, one who has a flare for perfect design.
But the path I’ve chosen has always been the right one, and I wouldn’t have had it any other way. :)
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Post by Praise GodWord »

Ultimately, the concept of science and secular are not distinct things. Rather science and sacred are. For me, the two can still co-exist. Science is an attempt to discover the creation of the cosmos by the Sacred. It is not an attempt to refute the sacred and enthrone it's a hypothesis. I agree with the both, to the extent they agree with themselves.
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Mounce574 wrote: 04 Mar 2021, 04:11
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 03 Mar 2021, 08:12
Mounce574 wrote: 03 Mar 2021, 01:25 I think it is plausible that the Earth might have been created that way but what caused the sun?
How do you mean? Creationists believe that the sun would have been created when God said 'let there be light'. Those who believe in the big bang will believe that, like other stars, it was created through dust and gas particles (formed from a gas cloud expanding and exploding into a supernova) in space having a gravitational pull towards each other, and when they collided they started to form elements through nuclear fusion, creating hydrogen and helium at the very core of it, and it is this that the sun is burning which is why it is on fire. The denser these particles get, the stronger the gravitational pull, which is what causes us to orbit around the sun, keeping us going in a circle, despite the earth's molecules wanting to go in a straight line.
Okay, I think I misunderstood what you said. So in theory God said let there be light and that caused the Big Bang part. But what I am thinking, if both are correct then maybe the Big Bang was slower because he didn't create Earth until the next day? Instead of what I pictured as a sudden explosion might actually be a slow expansion over days?
Exactly yes! The Big Bang happened about 14 billion years ago (13.8 to be precise), the earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago. The explosion happened and then the expansion happened after that slowly. So when it says God created the universe in 7 days, maybe thats in 'God years', but to us that is 2 billion years per day, if that makes sense?
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Post by _geothereader_ »

I am on a scientific side. If science can't fully explain the creation of the universe, it doesn't mean that it is wrong. It means that we, humans, have not enough knowledge to explain it yet. Perhaps, in 50 years the Big Bang Theory will be dismissed and another theory will take its place.
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Post by Fozia RYK »

I trust you must have both to see the greatest picture. For quite a long time, there has been a battle over individuals. Science VS Religion VS Magic. The initial two are continually attempting to have strength over the others.
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Post by Stephanie Runyon »

:P
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 04 Mar 2021, 07:54
Mounce574 wrote: 04 Mar 2021, 04:11
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 03 Mar 2021, 08:12

How do you mean? Creationists believe that the sun would have been created when God said 'let there be light'. Those who believe in the big bang will believe that, like other stars, it was created through dust and gas particles (formed from a gas cloud expanding and exploding into a supernova) in space having a gravitational pull towards each other, and when they collided they started to form elements through nuclear fusion, creating hydrogen and helium at the very core of it, and it is this that the sun is burning which is why it is on fire. The denser these particles get, the stronger the gravitational pull, which is what causes us to orbit around the sun, keeping us going in a circle, despite the earth's molecules wanting to go in a straight line.
Okay, I think I misunderstood what you said. So in theory God said let there be light and that caused the Big Bang part. But what I am thinking, if both are correct then maybe the Big Bang was slower because he didn't create Earth until the next day? Instead of what I pictured as a sudden explosion might actually be a slow expansion over days?
Exactly yes! The Big Bang happened about 14 billion years ago (13.8 to be precise), the earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago. The explosion happened and then the expansion happened after that slowly. So when it says God created the universe in 7 days, maybe thats in 'God years', but to us that is 2 billion years per day, if that makes sense?
I am not certain about the time part because I have read other books and they come up with different measurements. But that makes more sense now
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Post by Megamind136 »

I actually don't think that the argument on Religion and science is ever going to end. I also don't think you can believe the two. The actually contradicts each other
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Mounce574 wrote: 04 Mar 2021, 13:07 :P
Maddie Atkinson wrote: 04 Mar 2021, 07:54
Mounce574 wrote: 04 Mar 2021, 04:11
Okay, I think I misunderstood what you said. So in theory God said let there be light and that caused the Big Bang part. But what I am thinking, if both are correct then maybe the Big Bang was slower because he didn't create Earth until the next day? Instead of what I pictured as a sudden explosion might actually be a slow expansion over days?
Exactly yes! The Big Bang happened about 14 billion years ago (13.8 to be precise), the earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago. The explosion happened and then the expansion happened after that slowly. So when it says God created the universe in 7 days, maybe thats in 'God years', but to us that is 2 billion years per day, if that makes sense?
I am not certain about the time part because I have read other books and they come up with different measurements. But that makes more sense now
well the maximum age is thought to be around 14.5 billion years but no older than that. They can only estimate, but based on the oldest light in the universe (the afterglow of the big bang - also known as cosmic microwave background) they estimate between 13.8 - 14.5 billion years!
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Post by cd20 »

If I had to choose between Science or the Bible, I would always choose the Bible. I think they can be compatible and I think that a lot of scientific data does support the Bible. I think the two can coexist, and this book did not change my opinion on anything. It did however make me aware of things about the Talmud and Kabbalah that I did not know.
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Post by Mariana Figueira »

The author has managed to convince me that the two worlds can coexist. However, I fall on the scientific approach for sure; not only I study sciences but I'm also one of the least religious people I know.
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Post by Trustedbook »

The two are interrelated, in that science has come to answer questions from the scriptures, while the scriptures is the source of the question.
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Post by 63tty »

I believe both should be able to coexist. It makes it so much less stressful and less time-consuming. One gives us moral grounds and one helps us advance and live better in the world we were given by God.
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Post by Iva Stoyanova »

Nferdi20 wrote: 01 Mar 2021, 14:43 I believe that science has answers to a lot of things. However, when it comes to supernatural things such as the creation of the universe and what happened before that...... science cannot explain. Those things that science cannot explain about the origins of time and space are beyond our human understanding at this time.
I agree with you. Science has a lot of answers, and normally I would choose science to justify something but we can't always refer to it. That's in those cases when talking about the origins of time and space, etc.
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Post by PeterRabitt20 »

By reason, it would seem that if a person believes that God created everything, then wouldn't that also include science. He would have created the scientific and mathematical principles we study in school—even if they may not be mentioned in the classical scriptures. If that's the case then, then there would be no argument (or commercialization of that argument) about science and religion. Right?
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