Has the God deceived us?

Use this forum to discuss the March 2021 Book of the month, "The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan" by Daniel Friedmann, Dania Sheldon
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Has the God deceived us?

Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

The author explains, quoting some of the historical scholars, that actually the earth is not old as the scientists claim. He suggests that the God has created it in several thousand years (a 'day' in God's creation is taken as a 'thousand years'), but has made it to look like billions of years old, with the old stones, fossils, rings on the tree trunks, etc. The author compares this with making a newly made Denim trousers to look old by fading its colour and ripping it.
God created a theoretical timeline of all of existence, starting from the Big Bang and spanning billions of years. In this theoretical timeline, stars were born and died, dinosaurs roamed the Earth, and different human-like creatures came and went. Then, at a very specific point in this timeline, God took a snapshot of the entire universe, exactly as it would look at that moment, and that’s what He created. In other words, God brought a world billions of years old into existence fewer than 6,000 years ago.
Do you think this is true? If so, has the God deceived us? But why? On the other hand, has science got it all wrong despite hundreds of years of studies?
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

I don't think this is true. I think that God caused the Big Bang and the events that followed were a part of His plan. You can make jeans look faded and old yes, but you cannot make rocks look old when really it is young. Just because you make something look old it doesn't mean it is old, you can usually tell by the wear in something what its age is. Fossils have been studied and the stone and literally be dated back millions of years, it's not just a guess, it's down to the composition. The universe is 14 billion years old and the earth 4.5 billion years old. Material found on Earth and in space proves that, for example, volcanic material. I don't think that God has deceived us, I don't think He has any reason to.
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

Maddie Atkinson wrote: 02 Mar 2021, 10:16 I don't think this is true. I think that God caused the Big Bang and the events that followed were a part of His plan. You can make jeans look faded and old yes, but you cannot make rocks look old when really it is young. Just because you make something look old it doesn't mean it is old, you can usually tell by the wear in something what its age is. Fossils have been studied and the stone and literally be dated back millions of years, it's not just a guess, it's down to the composition. The universe is 14 billion years old and the earth 4.5 billion years old. Material found on Earth and in space proves that, for example, volcanic material. I don't think that God has deceived us, I don't think He has any reason to.
If the God was powerful enough to create the whole universe, how can He be not capable of making a rock look old, or fool the scientists by making the fossils age thousands of years? For the author's arguments and speculations to be true, either of these things should have happened; either God should have deceived us or the science has got all wrong. But if everything is God's doing, it brings us back to the conclusion that the God has deceived us. But why?
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Post by Michael Jerry_ »

Firstly I don’t think that God somehow deceived anyone secondly why would God make the earth then make it look older than it is? If you think he did it for no reason then he could have created us too for no reason. So yes the earth is as old as science says it is. Let us try to remember that this book isn’t the absolute truth as the absolute truth is unknown, this book is just yet another speculation of what the absolute truth is meaning that the author could be right or wrong.
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Post by Nferdi20 »

God has not deceived us. He created the universe, the Earth, stars, and life forms according to his divine plan. He left some things around for smart scientists to discover and explain. Other things have no scientific or earthly explanation... they just exist. Read Friedmann's next book, The Mystery of the First Instant. I think you will get a better understanding of God and his divine designs.
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Post by Bertha Jackson »

I do not believe God deceives his people. God has provided us with life, and how we perceive it, is totally us to us. I think it would be fairer to ask if we are deceiving God.
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Post by dianaterrado »

Sushan wrote: 02 Mar 2021, 00:24 The author explains, quoting some of the historical scholars, that actually the earth is not old as the scientists claim. He suggests that the God has created it in several thousand years (a 'day' in God's creation is taken as a 'thousand years'), but has made it to look like billions of years old, with the old stones, fossils, rings on the tree trunks, etc. The author compares this with making a newly made Denim trousers to look old by fading its colour and ripping it.
God created a theoretical timeline of all of existence, starting from the Big Bang and spanning billions of years. In this theoretical timeline, stars were born and died, dinosaurs roamed the Earth, and different human-like creatures came and went. Then, at a very specific point in this timeline, God took a snapshot of the entire universe, exactly as it would look at that moment, and that’s what He created. In other words, God brought a world billions of years old into existence fewer than 6,000 years ago.
Do you think this is true? If so, has the God deceived us? But why? On the other hand, has science got it all wrong despite hundreds of years of studies?
The author presented an intriguing idea and I think I'm going to have to disagree. It's definitely a new approach to the understanding of science and religion and God, but on this front, I'll just have to agree to disagree with the author
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

Michaeljerry309 wrote: 03 Mar 2021, 16:55 Firstly I don’t think that God somehow deceived anyone secondly why would God make the earth then make it look older than it is? If you think he did it for no reason then he could have created us too for no reason. So yes the earth is as old as science says it is. Let us try to remember that this book isn’t the absolute truth as the absolute truth is unknown, this book is just yet another speculation of what the absolute truth is meaning that the author could be right or wrong.
I agree. This is only a speculation and the author can be either correct or wrong. But what we have to keep in mind is that he has not merely speculated things, he has backed his logic with scholarly articles.

On the other hand, 'no one knows the absolute truth' is a pretty commonly abused statement when it comes to this sort of religious or spiritual questions, since no one can accept them or reject them. So, with all due respect, the creation could have been an outright lie from the very beginning. Maybe it is not God who deceived us, but the ancient story tellers who made up the story
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

Bertha Jackson wrote: 03 Mar 2021, 17:24 I do not believe God deceives his people. God has provided us with life, and how we perceive it, is totally us to us. I think it would be fairer to ask if we are deceiving God.
Are we deceiving God is a good question which has to be seperately discussed.

But here, if we consider the topic in hand, the author of this book has tried to scientifically prove the Creation, and fit it into the scientific time line. I do not believe that he meant any disrespect for the religion or God, but he had had his own reasons as well as backing from the work of previous scholars to suggest that actually God might have deceived us. Due to the way that he has presented this argument, we cannot merely neglect it
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Post by Hhannahh »

The author has got quite some opinion, which I don't entirely agree with. But the truth of these arguments is that we'll never certainly know the absolute truth, we can only speculate.
And God has not deceived.
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Post by Unique Ego »

Sushan wrote: 02 Mar 2021, 00:24 The author explains, quoting some of the historical scholars, that actually the earth is not old as the scientists claim. He suggests that the God has created it in several thousand years (a 'day' in God's creation is taken as a 'thousand years'), but has made it to look like billions of years old, with the old stones, fossils, rings on the tree trunks, etc. The author compares this with making a newly made Denim trousers to look old by fading its colour and ripping it.
God created a theoretical timeline of all of existence, starting from the Big Bang and spanning billions of years. In this theoretical timeline, stars were born and died, dinosaurs roamed the Earth, and different human-like creatures came and went. Then, at a very specific point in this timeline, God took a snapshot of the entire universe, exactly as it would look at that moment, and that’s what He created. In other words, God brought a world billions of years old into existence fewer than 6,000 years ago.
Do you think this is true? If so, has the God deceived us? But why? On the other hand, has science got it all wrong despite hundreds of years of studies?
The author's thoughts on this are unique to say the least as I've never heard this viewpoint before. It's certainly interesting to mull over. While I can see why he says that, I don't know if I agree completely. However, this is more due to a lack of evidence than anything else.

At the moment, I don't think either the Bible or science is wrong; I just think their missing a vital point of overlap that will make them both make sense. Besides, scriptures mentioned somewhere in the book of Job how God "destroyed the world." This isn't really news because we all know Noah's story. But then when we consider how some scholars believe Job may have existed before Noah, does that mean the destruction of the earth being referenced in Job happened before the great flood in Noah's time? Could it have been this first destruction that explains the dissapearance of dinosaurs and other prehistoric elements? It's all just speculation at this point, but it's definitely something to look into.

Did God deceive us? I seriously doubt that; I just think we haven't done enough research.
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Post by Michael Jerry_ »

Sushan wrote: 04 Mar 2021, 01:00
Michaeljerry309 wrote: 03 Mar 2021, 16:55 Firstly I don’t think that God somehow deceived anyone secondly why would God make the earth then make it look older than it is? If you think he did it for no reason then he could have created us too for no reason. So yes the earth is as old as science says it is. Let us try to remember that this book isn’t the absolute truth as the absolute truth is unknown, this book is just yet another speculation of what the absolute truth is meaning that the author could be right or wrong.
I agree. This is only a speculation and the author can be either correct or wrong. But what we have to keep in mind is that he has not merely speculated things, he has backed his logic with scholarly articles.

On the other hand, 'no one knows the absolute truth' is a pretty commonly abused statement when it comes to this sort of religious or spiritual questions, since no one can accept them or reject them. So, with all due respect, the creation could have been an outright lie from the very beginning. Maybe it is not God who deceived us, but the ancient story tellers who made up the story
Exactly!!
Most of the things we know about God are things we have been told so the information isn’t first hand and could have had things added or withheld and the Bible speaks in parables and metaphors who’s to really say what’s literal and what’s not. Moreover the same can; to a degree, be said about science these experiments done are carried out in closed doors and the results could be exaggerated or watered down and so we aren’t even sure that science or the ancient story tellers are 100% accurate. I studied philosophy in the university and one thing I learned is that every philosophy without scientific proof is still speculation, just a hypothesis, just another “in theory” because there are always other philosophers with their own point of views. Just think about it, I could write my own book disagreeing with most things the author has said in his book, that’s my opinion, my philosophy and others would read it and agree with me while some would still agree with the author. Who then is correct? Who’s philosophy is more accurate then? That is the beauty of philosophy.
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Post by Praise GodWord »

God did not deceive us. We may need to find out the true import of the statement that a day is like a thousand of years before him. Secondly, we must acknowledge that the earth has been before every scientist ever emerged.

It isn't easy to find out the date that predates you and still be accurate. The Bible did not tell us the age of the earth, but surely, it was before any man.
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

Hhannahh wrote: 04 Mar 2021, 02:08 The author has got quite some opinion, which I don't entirely agree with. But the truth of these arguments is that we'll never certainly know the absolute truth, we can only speculate.
And God has not deceived.
Seemingly author's this idea is not equally welcome by all the Christian population. Anyway, he has gone into this logical (or not) explanation to fit the scientific time line of the universe into the biblical time line. So he has tried to prove that the Creation is true.

And what I see mostly when someone say that 'we cannot know all', it is because they want to believe in their beliefs, yet are challenged by the scientific evidence that oppose them
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

Nferdi20 wrote: 03 Mar 2021, 17:24 God has not deceived us. He created the universe, the Earth, stars, and life forms according to his divine plan. He left some things around for smart scientists to discover and explain. Other things have no scientific or earthly explanation... they just exist. Read Friedmann's next book, The Mystery of the First Instant. I think you will get a better understanding of God and his divine designs.
Are Friedmann's books are accepted as legit or the absolute truth? If I read his next book, I might have a clear understanding about his theory regarding God and His Creation. But how can we say that that is the truth?

Maybe God created universe and left somethings to be discovered by scientists. So, if what this author suggests is correct, has the God deceived us? If so, why? On the other hand, if He has not deceived us, has all the scientists gone wrong in their discoveries? Have they not been smart enough as God expected?
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