Free Will

Use this forum to discuss the March 2021 Book of the month, "The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan" by Daniel Friedmann, Dania Sheldon
Post Reply
User avatar
cd20
Posts: 1036
Joined: 29 Nov 2020, 14:54
Favorite Book: Hope Between the Pages
Currently Reading: Growing Slow: Lessons on Un-Hurrying Your Heart from an Accidental Farm Girl
Bookshelf Size: 823
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-cd20.html
Latest Review: Now Unto Him by Melissa Huggins
Reading Device: B00IKPYKWG

Re: Free Will

Post by cd20 »

Sakura5 wrote: 10 Apr 2021, 05:35 I actually found this concept a bit difficult to fully believe. On the one hand, it makes sense, but on the other, why giving humans free will if in the end they still have to follow his plan? But I think these are the kind of greater questions to which we will never be able to give a final answer.
I think the two concepts are not related even though the author grouped them together. I believe God gave us free will so we could choose Him. Those that choose Him to follow the plan He has for them and those who don't, don't. I agree with you that these are greater questions that we may never fully understand or have answered. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Real life is dreadfully tedious, the way it interrupts reading. -Things We Didn't Say by Amy Lynn Green
User avatar
Albertus
Posts: 1
Joined: 27 Mar 2021, 17:58
Bookshelf Size: 0

Post by Albertus »

The Bible says we are chosen before the beginning of the world............." Those that fall under this category believe because they were chosen. The general opinion is that we ar3e chosen because we believe, which means that God cannot save us without our own participation. We have bend ourselves in all kinds of shapes to create a way out and there are too many to mention that will want to hang on to the free will phenomenon.
The "Free Will" issue has not conclusively been settled. There is a new book out that delves deep into the issue of free will and behavior in general. The question whether we have free will has traditionally two answers, yes or no. This book offers a third, intriguing and revolutionary answer. This answer is, to say the least, incredibly interesting to read as this novel approach has never been presented in this manner before. It makes you think on a path, likely not been followed before.
"Free Will, Do You Have It?"
User avatar
cd20
Posts: 1036
Joined: 29 Nov 2020, 14:54
Favorite Book: Hope Between the Pages
Currently Reading: Growing Slow: Lessons on Un-Hurrying Your Heart from an Accidental Farm Girl
Bookshelf Size: 823
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-cd20.html
Latest Review: Now Unto Him by Melissa Huggins
Reading Device: B00IKPYKWG

Post by cd20 »

Albertus wrote: 11 Apr 2021, 14:19 The Bible says we are chosen before the beginning of the world............." Those that fall under this category believe because they were chosen. The general opinion is that we ar3e chosen because we believe, which means that God cannot save us without our own participation. We have bend ourselves in all kinds of shapes to create a way out and there are too many to mention that will want to hang on to the free will phenomenon.
The "Free Will" issue has not conclusively been settled. There is a new book out that delves deep into the issue of free will and behavior in general. The question whether we have free will has traditionally two answers, yes or no. This book offers a third, intriguing and revolutionary answer. This answer is, to say the least, incredibly interesting to read as this novel approach has never been presented in this manner before. It makes you think on a path, likely not been followed before.
"Free Will, Do You Have It?"
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I do agree that we are chosen before the beginning of the world, that God did, in fact, chose all of us. Yet, we still have a choice, a free will, if you will, in whether or not we choose Him. I do believe we all have free will and I have never even entertained the possibility that there might be a third option. What research is the book based on? Is that the title of the book, "Free Will, Do you have it?"
Real life is dreadfully tedious, the way it interrupts reading. -Things We Didn't Say by Amy Lynn Green
Sophia U
Posts: 8
Joined: 12 Apr 2021, 03:23
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 12
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-sophia-u.html
Latest Review: Hard Journey of the Heart: Jesse's Story by Mark Zullo

Post by Sophia U »

I agree to the implication that humans would have a difficult time utilizing their sense of free will should God be present more frequently. It just adds to the pressure that there's a more advanced and superior species out there. Which, if we apply to the world where we live in now, may escalate and can become quite chaotic. Additionally though I'd like to think that if God were more present or visited the lot of us more frequently, humans might be more united and not as invested in the power play that is happening between countries despite the fact that it may hinder their free will. Sometimes, free will is not always done for good. :(
User avatar
smolbird
Posts: 835
Joined: 30 Nov 2020, 00:06
Favorite Author: Rick Riordan
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 264
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-smolbird.html
Latest Review: Pariah by Robert C. Swetz
fav_author_id: 2909

Post by smolbird »

I do somewhat agree that God doesn't reveal himself so that we would act according to our free will, but I feel that the argument about the reason why everything looks like it happened over a long time is to conceal that everything was created in 6 days is a weak position to take.
"It does not do well to dwell on dreams and forget to live." - Albus Dumbledore
User avatar
cd20
Posts: 1036
Joined: 29 Nov 2020, 14:54
Favorite Book: Hope Between the Pages
Currently Reading: Growing Slow: Lessons on Un-Hurrying Your Heart from an Accidental Farm Girl
Bookshelf Size: 823
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-cd20.html
Latest Review: Now Unto Him by Melissa Huggins
Reading Device: B00IKPYKWG

Post by cd20 »

Sophia U wrote: 13 Apr 2021, 09:13 I agree to the implication that humans would have a difficult time utilizing their sense of free will should God be present more frequently. It just adds to the pressure that there's a more advanced and superior species out there. Which, if we apply to the world where we live in now, may escalate and can become quite chaotic. Additionally though I'd like to think that if God were more present or visited the lot of us more frequently, humans might be more united and not as invested in the power play that is happening between countries despite the fact that it may hinder their free will. Sometimes, free will is not always done for good. :(
You make very valid and interesting points! I think if God was here physically that people would miss Him just like they did Jesus. Even though Jesus was physically present it did not necessarily end the chaos of that time either. I think the problem is that people have taken God out of everything and are living by their own moral codes, therefore they are using their free will in negative ways, like the example you mentioned. Thank you for sharing your opinions on this!
Real life is dreadfully tedious, the way it interrupts reading. -Things We Didn't Say by Amy Lynn Green
User avatar
cd20
Posts: 1036
Joined: 29 Nov 2020, 14:54
Favorite Book: Hope Between the Pages
Currently Reading: Growing Slow: Lessons on Un-Hurrying Your Heart from an Accidental Farm Girl
Bookshelf Size: 823
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-cd20.html
Latest Review: Now Unto Him by Melissa Huggins
Reading Device: B00IKPYKWG

Post by cd20 »

smolbird wrote: 13 Apr 2021, 23:34 I do somewhat agree that God doesn't reveal himself so that we would act according to our free will, but I feel that the argument about the reason why everything looks like it happened over a long time is to conceal that everything was created in 6 days is a weak position to take.
Thank you for weighing in on this. I agree, I think the two thoughts are unrelated and should not be lumped together. I do think there is greater freedom with our free will that God is not physically present and in our faces, but it may not be the best thing either. I am thankful for free will though.
Real life is dreadfully tedious, the way it interrupts reading. -Things We Didn't Say by Amy Lynn Green
User avatar
B Sheila Holt
In It Together VIP
Posts: 966
Joined: 03 Oct 2020, 01:32
Currently Reading: One Christmas Eve
Bookshelf Size: 85
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-b-sheila-holt.html
Latest Review: Open Heart by Akil Taher

Post by B Sheila Holt »

I have really enjoyed all the previous comments so far😁. I feel that most people don’t like to be held accountable to anyone. They want their own “free-will”. To do as they please, when they want. I also fully believe in God as He presents himself in the readings in the Bible. He says he loves us enough to not demand us to do what He wants, but allows us the freedom to make our own choices to follow Him or follow ourselves and the world. I do believe allowing free-will to lead you can either be a good thing, if you use it right. Or a bad thing, if you let it get you into trouble.

Just as it was mentioned above, most of us will choose to obey the laws when we know a policeman is around, but will relax those same laws when no one is watching. That’s “free-will”!! We forget that God is ALWAYS watching, knowing everything we do. So if we choose to follow Him, we strive to direct our “wills/life after His plan.

I also believe that the world was created in a very short period of time. But back then who truly knows if “days” were calculated in the same 24 hour frame as it is now? No one knows... but I do think God created it all in a relatively short span of time, in 6 consecutive blocks of time without any breaks until it was how He wanted it. I also believe there was some sort of global flood to cleanse the earth. Again, who knows for sure how much land or how many people were really here at that time?
User avatar
cd20
Posts: 1036
Joined: 29 Nov 2020, 14:54
Favorite Book: Hope Between the Pages
Currently Reading: Growing Slow: Lessons on Un-Hurrying Your Heart from an Accidental Farm Girl
Bookshelf Size: 823
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-cd20.html
Latest Review: Now Unto Him by Melissa Huggins
Reading Device: B00IKPYKWG

Post by cd20 »

Sheilaread wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 13:00 I have really enjoyed all the previous comments so far😁. I feel that most people don’t like to be held accountable to anyone. They want their own “free-will”. To do as they please, when they want. I also fully believe in God as He presents himself in the readings in the Bible. He says he loves us enough to not demand us to do what He wants, but allows us the freedom to make our own choices to follow Him or follow ourselves and the world. I do believe allowing free-will to lead you can either be a good thing, if you use it right. Or a bad thing, if you let it get you into trouble.

Just as it was mentioned above, most of us will choose to obey the laws when we know a policeman is around, but will relax those same laws when no one is watching. That’s “free-will”!! We forget that God is ALWAYS watching, knowing everything we do. So if we choose to follow Him, we strive to direct our “wills/life after His plan.

I also believe that the world was created in a very short period of time. But back then who truly knows if “days” were calculated in the same 24 hour frame as it is now? No one knows... but I do think God created it all in a relatively short span of time, in 6 consecutive blocks of time without any breaks until it was how He wanted it. I also believe there was some sort of global flood to cleanse the earth. Again, who knows for sure how much land or how many people were really here at that time?
Thanks for weighing in on this! I agree, most people do NOT want to be held accountable to anyone. What's the fun of that?! I also believe in God as He presents Himself in the Bible. I do believe, like you, that He created the world in 6 blocks of time. While we cannot know how everything went down because we were not there, I do believe it is like it is presented in the Bible.
Real life is dreadfully tedious, the way it interrupts reading. -Things We Didn't Say by Amy Lynn Green
Miraphery
Posts: 713
Joined: 16 Mar 2020, 02:21
Favorite Book: Worldlines
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 33
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-miraphery.html
Latest Review: Kalayla by Jeannie Nicholas

Post by Miraphery »

I don't agree with the author on this. God didn't necessarily have to hide to give us free will. He gave it because he didn't want us to be coerced into serving him. He's fair and that's what it is.
User avatar
Mwatu
Posts: 467
Joined: 20 Feb 2021, 01:50
Currently Reading: Don't Mind Me, I'm Just Having a Bad Life
Bookshelf Size: 52
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-mwatu.html
Latest Review: Protectors of the Black Prince by Curtis Stephen Burdick

Post by Mwatu »

This an interesting question and the discussion between Maddie and cd20 quite refreshing. I do think that God not revealing himself would affect but not negate free will. I however think this would be a positive thing. It would provide more clarity on what our purpose on earth is. I do also think that differences would still exist. As stated in the forum thread, evidence is sometimes not enough for some people.
User avatar
cd20
Posts: 1036
Joined: 29 Nov 2020, 14:54
Favorite Book: Hope Between the Pages
Currently Reading: Growing Slow: Lessons on Un-Hurrying Your Heart from an Accidental Farm Girl
Bookshelf Size: 823
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-cd20.html
Latest Review: Now Unto Him by Melissa Huggins
Reading Device: B00IKPYKWG

Post by cd20 »

Mwatu wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 04:02 This an interesting question and the discussion between Maddie and cd20 quite refreshing. I do think that God not revealing himself would affect but not negate free will. I however think this would be a positive thing. It would provide more clarity on what our purpose on earth is. I do also think that differences would still exist. As stated in the forum thread, evidence is sometimes not enough for some people.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I agree that God not revealing himself would affect but not negate free will. I also agree that differences will always exist. As long as we are human we will find ways to disagree with others, some of it is just perspective. If you and I witnessed an accident and I was focused on one car and you were focused on the other, then we are not necessarily going to agree with each other in what happened, because our perspective would be different. However, one of the things that make the world so interesting is the different perspectives we all carry!
Real life is dreadfully tedious, the way it interrupts reading. -Things We Didn't Say by Amy Lynn Green
User avatar
B Sheila Holt
In It Together VIP
Posts: 966
Joined: 03 Oct 2020, 01:32
Currently Reading: One Christmas Eve
Bookshelf Size: 85
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-b-sheila-holt.html
Latest Review: Open Heart by Akil Taher

Post by B Sheila Holt »

cd20 wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 17:44
Sheilaread wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 13:00 I have really enjoyed all the previous comments so far😁. I feel that most people don’t like to be held accountable to anyone. They want their own “free-will”. To do as they please, when they want. I also fully believe in God as He presents himself in the readings in the Bible. He says he loves us enough to not demand us to do what He wants, but allows us the freedom to make our own choices to follow Him or follow ourselves and the world. I do believe allowing free-will to lead you can either be a good thing, if you use it right. Or a bad thing, if you let it get you into trouble.

Just as it was mentioned above, most of us will choose to obey the laws when we know a policeman is around, but will relax those same laws when no one is watching. That’s “free-will”!! We forget that God is ALWAYS watching, knowing everything we do. So if we choose to follow Him, we strive to direct our “wills/life after His plan.

I also believe that the world was created in a very short period of time. But back then who truly knows if “days” were calculated in the same 24 hour frame as it is now? No one knows... but I do think God created it all in a relatively short span of time, in 6 consecutive blocks of time without any breaks until it was how He wanted it. I also believe there was some sort of global flood to cleanse the earth. Again, who knows for sure how much land or how many people were really here at that time?
Thanks for weighing in on this! I agree, most people do NOT want to be held accountable to anyone. What's the fun of that?! I also believe in God as He presents Himself in the Bible. I do believe, like you, that He created the world in 6 blocks of time. While we cannot know how everything went down because we were not there, I do believe it is like it is presented in the Bible.
Thank you so much for coming by and adding your thoughts. You make some great points about creation happening on track as the Bible tells it. As you say, it’s truly hard for any of us to fully know the truth of how everything came about or was created, since, ‘as you say’, we were not there!!

As for our ‘free will’, even in the earliest pages of the Bible, people exercised their choices or free will, instead of just following along like puppets.

Now many times, there are consequences to consider if you choose your own way over what may be the ‘better or right’ way, but we STILL have free will to make those choices.

Thank you again for your reply.
User avatar
cd20
Posts: 1036
Joined: 29 Nov 2020, 14:54
Favorite Book: Hope Between the Pages
Currently Reading: Growing Slow: Lessons on Un-Hurrying Your Heart from an Accidental Farm Girl
Bookshelf Size: 823
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-cd20.html
Latest Review: Now Unto Him by Melissa Huggins
Reading Device: B00IKPYKWG

Post by cd20 »

Sheilaread wrote: 17 Apr 2021, 07:56
cd20 wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 17:44
Sheilaread wrote: 16 Apr 2021, 13:00 I have really enjoyed all the previous comments so far😁. I feel that most people don’t like to be held accountable to anyone. They want their own “free-will”. To do as they please, when they want. I also fully believe in God as He presents himself in the readings in the Bible. He says he loves us enough to not demand us to do what He wants, but allows us the freedom to make our own choices to follow Him or follow ourselves and the world. I do believe allowing free-will to lead you can either be a good thing, if you use it right. Or a bad thing, if you let it get you into trouble.

Just as it was mentioned above, most of us will choose to obey the laws when we know a policeman is around, but will relax those same laws when no one is watching. That’s “free-will”!! We forget that God is ALWAYS watching, knowing everything we do. So if we choose to follow Him, we strive to direct our “wills/life after His plan.

I also believe that the world was created in a very short period of time. But back then who truly knows if “days” were calculated in the same 24 hour frame as it is now? No one knows... but I do think God created it all in a relatively short span of time, in 6 consecutive blocks of time without any breaks until it was how He wanted it. I also believe there was some sort of global flood to cleanse the earth. Again, who knows for sure how much land or how many people were really here at that time?
Thanks for weighing in on this! I agree, most people do NOT want to be held accountable to anyone. What's the fun of that?! I also believe in God as He presents Himself in the Bible. I do believe, like you, that He created the world in 6 blocks of time. While we cannot know how everything went down because we were not there, I do believe it is like it is presented in the Bible.
Thank you so much for coming by and adding your thoughts. You make some great points about creation happening on track as the Bible tells it. As you say, it’s truly hard for any of us to fully know the truth of how everything came about or was created, since, ‘as you say’, we were not there!!

As for our ‘free will’, even in the earliest pages of the Bible, people exercised their choices or free will, instead of just following along like puppets.

Now many times, there are consequences to consider if you choose your own way over what may be the ‘better or right’ way, but we STILL have free will to make those choices.

Thank you again for your reply.
Yes, we do see free will in the earliest parts of the Bible, and we still see it today. We do have choices and we do get to choose what we want to do and how we want to respond to certain situations. It is hard to believe that some people do not believe that we do have free will, but we will have to choose to agree to disagree.
Real life is dreadfully tedious, the way it interrupts reading. -Things We Didn't Say by Amy Lynn Green
KanaSmriti
Posts: 52
Joined: 15 Apr 2021, 06:34
Currently Reading:
Bookshelf Size: 14
Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-kanasmriti.html
Latest Review: Rise of the Savior: Acolyte of Truth by Antoine Bonner

Post by KanaSmriti »

If God comes to me and says that its been only 2 years that everything has been created, I must have been in a shock. And its quite agreeable that there wouldn't be any free will.
Post Reply

Return to “Discuss "The Biblical Clock" by Daniel Friedmann, Dania Sheldon”