Free Will

Use this forum to discuss the March 2021 Book of the month, "The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan" by Daniel Friedmann, Dania Sheldon
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cd20
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Re: Free Will

Post by cd20 »

Anna Bookowski wrote: 24 May 2021, 12:35
cd20 wrote: 06 Mar 2021, 18:52 The authors explain that the reason everything looks like it happened naturally over a long period of time is "Because if it were obvious that the world had been created in six days, there would be no free will, no way to doubt the existence of the Creator. God is hidden so that we can function as human beings with free will." What do you think of this? Do you agree or disagree? Why?
Lately I've came across a bit different theory and I like it a lot. It says not that God is hidden, but that he/she wanted to get to know his/hers own nature (in a way that physics assumes that there must be observator for the observed object to even exist). So he/she kind of divided him/herself - by spliting into the world we know: into people, animals, trees, clouds, mountains, Sun and heavens - everything you can think about - so that he/she could finally see him/herself and what he/she really is. This also goes with what Bible says about God creating humans on his own image.
This theory assumes than that we all are having this God's particle in ourselves - the God is in us all, in the world around us - the world as a whole is the God him/herself. That also means we have free will because someways our will is also God's will, and if he/she wouldn't be free than who would..
That would mean the God is not hiding - he/she's in all of us and we are him/her. Isn't it a beautiful thought? What do you think?
The theory is interesting and not one that I had heard before. Since you asked, I don't agree with it. The Bible says we are created in God's image, not that we have a part of Him in each of us. Being made in God's image means we act like Him, mirror His attributes, love because He first loved us and so much more. I do believe that God is always with us, just not necessarily in us (at least not the Holy Spirit like the Bible teaches) until we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. Again, the theory you heard is interesting, but I have a hard time saying God is in ALL of us because that would include those who murder and stuff, just can't see it. That doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong, I just can't see it, if that makes sense.
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Post by Anna Bookowski »

cd20 wrote: 24 May 2021, 15:04
Anna Bookowski wrote: 24 May 2021, 12:35
cd20 wrote: 06 Mar 2021, 18:52 The authors explain that the reason everything looks like it happened naturally over a long period of time is "Because if it were obvious that the world had been created in six days, there would be no free will, no way to doubt the existence of the Creator. God is hidden so that we can function as human beings with free will." What do you think of this? Do you agree or disagree? Why?
Lately I've came across a bit different theory and I like it a lot. It says not that God is hidden, but that he/she wanted to get to know his/hers own nature (in a way that physics assumes that there must be observator for the observed object to even exist). So he/she kind of divided him/herself - by spliting into the world we know: into people, animals, trees, clouds, mountains, Sun and heavens - everything you can think about - so that he/she could finally see him/herself and what he/she really is. This also goes with what Bible says about God creating humans on his own image.
This theory assumes than that we all are having this God's particle in ourselves - the God is in us all, in the world around us - the world as a whole is the God him/herself. That also means we have free will because someways our will is also God's will, and if he/she wouldn't be free than who would..
That would mean the God is not hiding - he/she's in all of us and we are him/her. Isn't it a beautiful thought? What do you think?
The theory is interesting and not one that I had heard before. Since you asked, I don't agree with it. The Bible says we are created in God's image, not that we have a part of Him in each of us. Being made in God's image means we act like Him, mirror His attributes, love because He first loved us and so much more. I do believe that God is always with us, just not necessarily in us (at least not the Holy Spirit like the Bible teaches) until we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. Again, the theory you heard is interesting, but I have a hard time saying God is in ALL of us because that would include those who murder and stuff, just can't see it. That doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong, I just can't see it, if that makes sense.
Thanks for your reply. Of course what makes sense for one, will not make for other, everyone perceives it their own way. But it's interesting to share our points of view and different theories. After all none of us knows for sure! :) And those who murder are also created by God and in His image, aren't they? It's a difficult issue as no one knows really the nature of God. All we know is what we've heard from the others. Possibly we will never truly understand that!
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Post by MBerretta »

Interesting outlook to say that God created everything in 6 days but made it look like it was older to allow humans to have free will and not realize "God's presence".
I wonder why we must have this "trickery" or perception of how we have evolved from the beginning. In my mind, regardless of how old we say things are we can still believe that the Earth God created was indeed in 6 days' time just not everything we see today was created. He gave us the stepping stones of life and thus we evolved and became what we are over the millions of years. People can be incorrect about timelines so I feel like we don't need to be deceived to allow us to have free will.

Hopefully, I don't offend anyone! Just my thoughts!
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Post by cd20 »

Anna Bookowski wrote: 25 May 2021, 08:21
cd20 wrote: 24 May 2021, 15:04
Anna Bookowski wrote: 24 May 2021, 12:35

Lately I've came across a bit different theory and I like it a lot. It says not that God is hidden, but that he/she wanted to get to know his/hers own nature (in a way that physics assumes that there must be observator for the observed object to even exist). So he/she kind of divided him/herself - by spliting into the world we know: into people, animals, trees, clouds, mountains, Sun and heavens - everything you can think about - so that he/she could finally see him/herself and what he/she really is. This also goes with what Bible says about God creating humans on his own image.
This theory assumes than that we all are having this God's particle in ourselves - the God is in us all, in the world around us - the world as a whole is the God him/herself. That also means we have free will because someways our will is also God's will, and if he/she wouldn't be free than who would..
That would mean the God is not hiding - he/she's in all of us and we are him/her. Isn't it a beautiful thought? What do you think?
The theory is interesting and not one that I had heard before. Since you asked, I don't agree with it. The Bible says we are created in God's image, not that we have a part of Him in each of us. Being made in God's image means we act like Him, mirror His attributes, love because He first loved us and so much more. I do believe that God is always with us, just not necessarily in us (at least not the Holy Spirit like the Bible teaches) until we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. Again, the theory you heard is interesting, but I have a hard time saying God is in ALL of us because that would include those who murder and stuff, just can't see it. That doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong, I just can't see it, if that makes sense.
Thanks for your reply. Of course what makes sense for one, will not make for other, everyone perceives it their own way. But it's interesting to share our points of view and different theories. After all none of us knows for sure! :) And those who murder are also created by God and in His image, aren't they? It's a difficult issue as no one knows really the nature of God. All we know is what we've heard from the others. Possibly we will never truly understand that!
Yes, those who murder are created in God's image, they just chose not to act like that, because they do have free will :lol2: For those who are Christians they do believe that God's nature is revealed through the Bible, and we see a lot of different sides of Him through the Bible. I agree that no matter how long we live, we will probably never understand the complexities of this world and God. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
Real life is dreadfully tedious, the way it interrupts reading. -Things We Didn't Say by Amy Lynn Green
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Post by cd20 »

MBerretta wrote: 25 May 2021, 11:26 Interesting outlook to say that God created everything in 6 days but made it look like it was older to allow humans to have free will and not realize "God's presence".
I wonder why we must have this "trickery" or perception of how we have evolved from the beginning. In my mind, regardless of how old we say things are we can still believe that the Earth God created was indeed in 6 days' time just not everything we see today was created. He gave us the stepping stones of life and thus we evolved and became what we are over the millions of years. People can be incorrect about timelines so I feel like we don't need to be deceived to allow us to have free will.

Hopefully, I don't offend anyone! Just my thoughts!
I do not believe these two events are related and that the author just lumped them together. I think you expressed it very well and I agree with you. The point (I think) of these forums is to express our thoughts and opinions in a nice way and hopefully, we aren't offending others. Everyone has an opinion and are entitled to it. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
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Post by Nouria el saftawy »

I think I would have to agree because I think if god wasn’t hidden a lot of our choices would’ve been influenced by that, so if we choose to do the good or the bad it all comes from our free will.
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Post by Jasleen Chadha »

Free will does exist. Maybe we can't see God because he is the creator and he chose not to reveal himself so that he can witness the innumerable possibilities and outcomes of a human life.
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Post by cd20 »

Nouria el saftawy wrote: 31 May 2021, 12:02 I think I would have to agree because I think if god wasn’t hidden a lot of our choices would’ve been influenced by that, so if we choose to do the good or the bad it all comes from our free will.
I don't think the two are related. I do believe we have free will, but I do not believe that is the reason God is hidden. Obviously, we do not know for sure all the reasons He chooses to hide Himself, but it could be one of the reasons. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
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Post by cd20 »

Jasleen Chadha wrote: 31 May 2021, 20:13 Free will does exist. Maybe we can't see God because he is the creator and he chose not to reveal himself so that he can witness the innumerable possibilities and outcomes of a human life.
I agree that free will does exist. I know we don't know all the reason why God chooses to hide Himself, I do not believe that these two are related, but I do agree that we have free will. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions.
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Post by tafta »

Heidadela wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 13:39 I think the reason why earth looks older is because of sin. On the subject of free will, I do agree that we are given the 'free will' to act accordingly. However, I do not think the mystery of God is connected to the free will at all. The reason why we have free will is because God is not a tyrant, as the serpent accused Him before being thrown out of heaven. He is a just God and the only way to expose the serpent is by allowing us to choose right from wrong. Love for God has to be the basis of all we do, not compulsion.
I agree with you there. By virtue of Him being Good and our creator mystery is inevitable. As for revelation, I think He has revealed so much of Himself but because of the free will we have, we don't see it.
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Post by cd20 »

tafta wrote: 03 Jun 2021, 09:26
Heidadela wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 13:39 I think the reason why earth looks older is because of sin. On the subject of free will, I do agree that we are given the 'free will' to act accordingly. However, I do not think the mystery of God is connected to the free will at all. The reason why we have free will is because God is not a tyrant, as the serpent accused Him before being thrown out of heaven. He is a just God and the only way to expose the serpent is by allowing us to choose right from wrong. Love for God has to be the basis of all we do, not compulsion.
I agree with you there. By virtue of Him being Good and our creator mystery is inevitable. As for revelation, I think He has revealed so much of Himself but because of the free will we have, we don't see it.
I agree mystery is inevitable, and we may not know all the reasons why God has chosen to hide Himself until we meet Him face to face. I agree that He has revealed a lot of Himself. I am thankful we have free will. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
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Post by Laksha Maria Charbel »

The Bible says that when God created man, he created him with free will. Therefore it doesn't make sense for him to hide the origin from us in order for us to have free will. Adam and Eve were banished from heaven because they were deceived by Satan and disobeyed God's orders. The Devil is the deceiver. It has been repeated several times in the gospels.
God sent Adam and Eve out of heaven because he is just and for them to learn obedience. He knew that man could not overcome his sin and the deceit of the Devil and therefore sent his only son Lord Jesus Christ to defeat Satan. So that we may be one with him again in due time.
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Post by cd20 »

Laksha Maria Charbel wrote: 11 Jun 2021, 10:40 The Bible says that when God created man, he created him with free will. Therefore it doesn't make sense for him to hide the origin from us in order for us to have free will. Adam and Eve were banished from heaven because they were deceived by Satan and disobeyed God's orders. The Devil is the deceiver. It has been repeated several times in the gospels.
God sent Adam and Eve out of heaven because he is just and for them to learn obedience. He knew that man could not overcome his sin and the deceit of the Devil and therefore sent his only son Lord Jesus Christ to defeat Satan. So that we may be one with him again in due time.
I agree. I do not believe that these two concepts are related at all. Disobedience is what got Adam and Eve in trouble and that is what gets us as well. It is through repentance and Jesus that we will be with Him again in due time. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
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Post by Kathryn Collins »

cd20 wrote: 06 Mar 2021, 18:52 The authors explain that the reason everything looks like it happened naturally over a long period of time is "Because if it were obvious that the world had been created in six days, there would be no free will, no way to doubt the existence of the Creator. God is hidden so that we can function as human beings with free will." What do you think of this? Do you agree or disagree? Why?
That's a concept I have never heard before... I have not read the book so I am not sure I am completely understanding what he said. I have always heard and believed that the reason the earth looks old (for example rock layers and fossils) is due to the worldwide flood of Noah.
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Post by cd20 »

Ruth Fuller wrote: 12 Jun 2021, 10:22
cd20 wrote: 06 Mar 2021, 18:52 The authors explain that the reason everything looks like it happened naturally over a long period of time is "Because if it were obvious that the world had been created in six days, there would be no free will, no way to doubt the existence of the Creator. God is hidden so that we can function as human beings with free will." What do you think of this? Do you agree or disagree? Why?
That's a concept I have never heard before... I have not read the book so I am not sure I am completely understanding what he said. I have always heard and believed that the reason the earth looks old (for example rock layers and fossils) is due to the worldwide flood of Noah.
I read the book and do not believe that these two concepts are related. I am not sure why the author lumped them together, although it has made for some interesting conversations. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Real life is dreadfully tedious, the way it interrupts reading. -Things We Didn't Say by Amy Lynn Green
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