Editing clarity (Resolved)

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Ben Madeley
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Editing clarity (Resolved)

Post by Ben Madeley »

To be clear I'm talking about how editors check the reviews submitted by reviewers and some things that I find confusing and that I think can be improved. My purpose is to get some clarification and offer some suggestions for improving the site. My suggestions will be at the bottom.

Issues causing confusion to me:

1. Contradictory editor scores. I very often get wildly different scores from editor, which is very confusing and I don't really understand why this happens unless the guidelines are for them are unclear.

2. The time it takes for contradictory scorecards to be resolved. When 2 editors give very different scores, it seems to take a really long time for these to be resolved, much longer than when reviewers appeal or ask for an admin recheck.

3. Reviewers cannot appeal the second scorecard if a different score is given to the first editor scorecard. Sometimes an editor makes a simple mistake, which could be resolved by a quick appeal by the reviewer and a recheck by the editor. However when there has already been another scorecard completed for a review which gives a different scorecard, a reviewer can not appeal the second scorecard because it automatically gets checked. However this takes a long time to be resolved and impacts the reviewers scorecard in the meantime.

4. What counts as failing to adhere to guidelines in terms of reporting sexual content or listing profanities? It's not listed in the review guidelines as to what constitutes a breach of guidelines, yet some reviews can be failed on this basis.

Possible solutions:

1. Perhaps the editor guidelines need clarifying to make the editors job easier. Sharing the editors guidelines with the reviewers would also make it easier for reviewers to know what they're being judged on and could improve their reviews.

2. Admin rechecks and editors rechecks normally get completed with in a few days, could scorecards that differ between 2 editors be checked quicker than they are currently?

3. Allow reviewers to appeal editor scorecards (for the second scorecard of a review if it differs to the first) before sending them back to both editors to be rechecked. Some issues could be solved quickly and it would save everyone's time.

4. Include all information that could lead to a review being in breach of the guidelines in the review guidelines and share the editors guidelines for checking reviews with reviewers for complete transparency and clarity.

I know this is long, so I would appreciate anyone's thoughts and feedback.
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Kirsi Cultrera
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Post by Kirsi Cultrera »

Ben Madeley wrote: 28 Feb 2023, 03:49 To be clear I'm talking about how editors check the reviews submitted by reviewers and some things that I find confusing and that I think can be improved. My purpose is to get some clarification and offer some suggestions for improving the site. My suggestions will be at the bottom.

Issues causing confusion to me:

1. Contradictory editor scores. I very often get wildly different scores from editor, which is very confusing and I don't really understand why this happens unless the guidelines are for them are unclear.

2. The time it takes for contradictory scorecards to be resolved. When 2 editors give very different scores, it seems to take a really long time for these to be resolved, much longer than when reviewers appeal or ask for an admin recheck.

3. Reviewers cannot appeal the second scorecard if a different score is given to the first editor scorecard. Sometimes an editor makes a simple mistake, which could be resolved by a quick appeal by the reviewer and a recheck by the editor. However when there has already been another scorecard completed for a review which gives a different scorecard, a reviewer can not appeal the second scorecard because it automatically gets checked. However this takes a long time to be resolved and impacts the reviewers scorecard in the meantime.

4. What counts as failing to adhere to guidelines in terms of reporting sexual content or listing profanities? It's not listed in the review guidelines as to what constitutes a breach of guidelines, yet some reviews can be failed on this basis.

Possible solutions:

1. Perhaps the editor guidelines need clarifying to make the editors job easier. Sharing the editors guidelines with the reviewers would also make it easier for reviewers to know what they're being judged on and could improve their reviews.

2. Admin rechecks and editors rechecks normally get completed with in a few days, could scorecards that differ between 2 editors be checked quicker than they are currently?

3. Allow reviewers to appeal editor scorecards (for the second scorecard of a review if it differs to the first) before sending them back to both editors to be rechecked. Some issues could be solved quickly and it would save everyone's time.

4. Include all information that could lead to a review being in breach of the guidelines in the review guidelines and share the editors guidelines for checking reviews with reviewers for complete transparency and clarity.

I know this is long, so I would appreciate anyone's thoughts and feedback.
Hi, Ben,

And thank you for your suggestions. A few comments and questions, if I may?

1. Do your editor scores vary in objective or subjective sections? The subjective part is also bound on the editor's personal opinion.

2. I agree with you that the waiting period is rather long. If my memory is correct, a different approach has already been suggested to the management.

3. Sometimes resolving the discrepancy between two scorecards also resolves the need to ask for an admin recheck. I believe there is a good reason for this to be as it is, but I am, of course, open for discussion.

4. The information for this purpose can be found from the review submission form. I find the listing there very helpful. You can also find more information considering profanities from the Official Profanity Guide that is place on the Review Team Support Forum.

I am looking forward hearing further thoughts about this from you (and from everyone else, too!)

Wishing you a lovely day,
Kirsi
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Post by Ben Madeley »

Hi Kirsi,

Thanks for replying and I appreciate your time, effort and comments.

1. I was referring to the objective sections (grammar/spelling and whether it adheres to the guidelines or not).
I understand if the subjective part is different. Also it's only when the objective parts are different that the 2 editors have to recheck the scores I think. It doesn't happen every time, but it has happened to me a few times recently, for example on one review, I got 100% from one editor and then 45% from another. (an objective error and a breach of guidelines). To me this suggests that the editors can't all be clear on the rules and I understand it can be difficult for them, so I think perhaps they need clearer guidelines for marking reviews?
I'm assuming I'm not the only person to experience this.

2. Ok, good to know.

3. I understand that an admin recheck might be necessary sometimes, I just think sometimes if a reviewer could appeal and point out an error or ask for clarity, then further action by the 1st editor or an admin might not be necessary.

4. I agree that the information is there but what I'm not clear on in terms of reporting the sexual content is what constitutes a breach of guidelines, for example I used the guide to give my rating for sexual content and one editor accepted it and another said I was incorrect and therefore in breach of the guidelines.
I was just wondering if, I put a 1 and the editor thinks it's a 2 does that count as a breach of guidelines or would my rating have to be wildly different to the editors opinion?
Also I think rating something even with the guide can be a little subjective, so I feel it's only natural for there to be some variation in scores that people give. Really my point is, what is considered a breach of the guidelines in terms of sexual content because I don't believe it is explicitly stated anywhere and I'd like to avoid being in breach of the guidelines in the future.

I'd really like to hear other people's opinions too, as I don't think I can be alone in this (but perhaps I am). I try very hard to get 100% on each review and I find it confusing when they get quite conflicting editor scorecards and surprising at times to be told I'm in breach of a guideline when I'm not clear exactly what the guideline is and I haven't been in breach of it on my previous reviews.

Thanks again,

Ben
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Post by Kaitlyn Canedy »

Ben Madeley wrote: 28 Feb 2023, 06:33 Hi Kirsi,

Thanks for replying and I appreciate your time, effort and comments.

1. I was referring to the objective sections (grammar/spelling and whether it adheres to the guidelines or not).
I understand if the subjective part is different. Also it's only when the objective parts are different that the 2 editors have to recheck the scores I think. It doesn't happen every time, but it has happened to me a few times recently, for example on one review, I got 100% from one editor and then 45% from another. (an objective error and a breach of guidelines). To me this suggests that the editors can't all be clear on the rules and I understand it can be difficult for them, so I think perhaps they need clearer guidelines for marking reviews?
I'm assuming I'm not the only person to experience this.

2. Ok, good to know.

3. I understand that an admin recheck might be necessary sometimes, I just think sometimes if a reviewer could appeal and point out an error or ask for clarity, then further action by the 1st editor or an admin might not be necessary.

4. I agree that the information is there but what I'm not clear on in terms of reporting the sexual content is what constitutes a breach of guidelines, for example I used the guide to give my rating for sexual content and one editor accepted it and another said I was incorrect and therefore in breach of the guidelines.
I was just wondering if, I put a 1 and the editor thinks it's a 2 does that count as a breach of guidelines or would my rating have to be wildly different to the editors opinion?
Also I think rating something even with the guide can be a little subjective, so I feel it's only natural for there to be some variation in scores that people give. Really my point is, what is considered a breach of the guidelines in terms of sexual content because I don't believe it is explicitly stated anywhere and I'd like to avoid being in breach of the guidelines in the future.

I'd really like to hear other people's opinions too, as I don't think I can be alone in this (but perhaps I am). I try very hard to get 100% on each review and I find it confusing when they get quite conflicting editor scorecards and surprising at times to be told I'm in breach of a guideline when I'm not clear exactly what the guideline is and I haven't been in breach of it on my previous reviews.

Thanks again,

Ben
Hi,

Thank you for reaching out. We appreciate your feedback about the editing system. I have some comments/questions about your responses, if I may-

1. I agree with the issue with variation when it comes the editor scores. In your example, this difference is quite stark. I know there are rules in place for editors who are not scoring reviews correctly, but my knowledge of the criteria used is limited. Perhaps @Alice in Scotland can provide more details about how this works?

3. When a reviewer appeals a scorecard, the appeal goes to the editor who scored the review. How would the appeal process be quicker, even if the reviewer would only be seeking clarification?

4. The sexual content scale depends on the level of sexual content in the book. What I like to do is quote the exact sentence(s) that has sexual content (or what I perceive as such), then use this to mark the scale. In all honesty, unless an editor has actually read the book themselves, they cannot possibly know what level of sexual content is in a book, if there is even any at all.

I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks!
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Post by Ben Madeley »

Kaitlyn Canedy wrote: 28 Feb 2023, 12:49
Ben Madeley wrote: 28 Feb 2023, 06:33 Hi Kirsi,

Thanks for replying and I appreciate your time, effort and comments.

1. I was referring to the objective sections (grammar/spelling and whether it adheres to the guidelines or not).
I understand if the subjective part is different. Also it's only when the objective parts are different that the 2 editors have to recheck the scores I think. It doesn't happen every time, but it has happened to me a few times recently, for example on one review, I got 100% from one editor and then 45% from another. (an objective error and a breach of guidelines). To me this suggests that the editors can't all be clear on the rules and I understand it can be difficult for them, so I think perhaps they need clearer guidelines for marking reviews?
I'm assuming I'm not the only person to experience this.

2. Ok, good to know.

3. I understand that an admin recheck might be necessary sometimes, I just think sometimes if a reviewer could appeal and point out an error or ask for clarity, then further action by the 1st editor or an admin might not be necessary.

4. I agree that the information is there but what I'm not clear on in terms of reporting the sexual content is what constitutes a breach of guidelines, for example I used the guide to give my rating for sexual content and one editor accepted it and another said I was incorrect and therefore in breach of the guidelines.
I was just wondering if, I put a 1 and the editor thinks it's a 2 does that count as a breach of guidelines or would my rating have to be wildly different to the editors opinion?
Also I think rating something even with the guide can be a little subjective, so I feel it's only natural for there to be some variation in scores that people give. Really my point is, what is considered a breach of the guidelines in terms of sexual content because I don't believe it is explicitly stated anywhere and I'd like to avoid being in breach of the guidelines in the future.

I'd really like to hear other people's opinions too, as I don't think I can be alone in this (but perhaps I am). I try very hard to get 100% on each review and I find it confusing when they get quite conflicting editor scorecards and surprising at times to be told I'm in breach of a guideline when I'm not clear exactly what the guideline is and I haven't been in breach of it on my previous reviews.

Thanks again,

Ben
Hi,

Thank you for reaching out. We appreciate your feedback about the editing system. I have some comments/questions about your responses, if I may-

1. I agree with the issue with variation when it comes the editor scores. In your example, this difference is quite stark. I know there are rules in place for editors who are not scoring reviews correctly, but my knowledge of the criteria used is limited. Perhaps @Alice in Scotland can provide more details about how this works?

3. When a reviewer appeals a scorecard, the appeal goes to the editor who scored the review. How would the appeal process be quicker, even if the reviewer would only be seeking clarification?

4. The sexual content scale depends on the level of sexual content in the book. What I like to do is quote the exact sentence(s) that has sexual content (or what I perceive as such), then use this to mark the scale. In all honesty, unless an editor has actually read the book themselves, they cannot possibly know what level of sexual content is in a book, if there is even any at all.

I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks!
Thanks for your comments Kaitlyn.

With point 3, I meant that when the second editor scores the review and it is different to the first editors score, it automatically gets sent back to both editors to check and I think this is sometimes unnecessary because if I could appeal to the second editor, I could point out the error that I think they made and they could correct the scorecard if I was indeed correct and we wouldn't need to have the prolonged check. I think that could happen first.

4. Yes I was happy with my judgement of the sexual content because I had made notes and checked them against the scorecard, so I was surprised that one of the editors disagreed with me and also surprised that this meant my review did not adhere to the guidelines in their eyes. I wasn't aware that this was a guideline. I'm still not sure if it is either to be honest...

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts Kaitlyn, I just get a little confused by it sometimes.
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Post by Kirsi Cultrera »

Ben Madeley wrote: 28 Feb 2023, 21:29
Kaitlyn Canedy wrote: 28 Feb 2023, 12:49
Ben Madeley wrote: 28 Feb 2023, 06:33 Hi Kirsi,

Thanks for replying and I appreciate your time, effort and comments.

1. I was referring to the objective sections (grammar/spelling and whether it adheres to the guidelines or not).
I understand if the subjective part is different. Also it's only when the objective parts are different that the 2 editors have to recheck the scores I think. It doesn't happen every time, but it has happened to me a few times recently, for example on one review, I got 100% from one editor and then 45% from another. (an objective error and a breach of guidelines). To me this suggests that the editors can't all be clear on the rules and I understand it can be difficult for them, so I think perhaps they need clearer guidelines for marking reviews?
I'm assuming I'm not the only person to experience this.

2. Ok, good to know.

3. I understand that an admin recheck might be necessary sometimes, I just think sometimes if a reviewer could appeal and point out an error or ask for clarity, then further action by the 1st editor or an admin might not be necessary.

4. I agree that the information is there but what I'm not clear on in terms of reporting the sexual content is what constitutes a breach of guidelines, for example I used the guide to give my rating for sexual content and one editor accepted it and another said I was incorrect and therefore in breach of the guidelines.
I was just wondering if, I put a 1 and the editor thinks it's a 2 does that count as a breach of guidelines or would my rating have to be wildly different to the editors opinion?
Also I think rating something even with the guide can be a little subjective, so I feel it's only natural for there to be some variation in scores that people give. Really my point is, what is considered a breach of the guidelines in terms of sexual content because I don't believe it is explicitly stated anywhere and I'd like to avoid being in breach of the guidelines in the future.

I'd really like to hear other people's opinions too, as I don't think I can be alone in this (but perhaps I am). I try very hard to get 100% on each review and I find it confusing when they get quite conflicting editor scorecards and surprising at times to be told I'm in breach of a guideline when I'm not clear exactly what the guideline is and I haven't been in breach of it on my previous reviews.

Thanks again,

Ben
Hi,

Thank you for reaching out. We appreciate your feedback about the editing system. I have some comments/questions about your responses, if I may-

1. I agree with the issue with variation when it comes the editor scores. In your example, this difference is quite stark. I know there are rules in place for editors who are not scoring reviews correctly, but my knowledge of the criteria used is limited. Perhaps @Alice in Scotland can provide more details about how this works?

3. When a reviewer appeals a scorecard, the appeal goes to the editor who scored the review. How would the appeal process be quicker, even if the reviewer would only be seeking clarification?

4. The sexual content scale depends on the level of sexual content in the book. What I like to do is quote the exact sentence(s) that has sexual content (or what I perceive as such), then use this to mark the scale. In all honesty, unless an editor has actually read the book themselves, they cannot possibly know what level of sexual content is in a book, if there is even any at all.

I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks!
Thanks for your comments Kaitlyn.

With point 3, I meant that when the second editor scores the review and it is different to the first editors score, it automatically gets sent back to both editors to check and I think this is sometimes unnecessary because if I could appeal to the second editor, I could point out the error that I think they made and they could correct the scorecard if I was indeed correct and we wouldn't need to have the prolonged check. I think that could happen first.

4. Yes I was happy with my judgement of the sexual content because I had made notes and checked them against the scorecard, so I was surprised that one of the editors disagreed with me and also surprised that this meant my review did not adhere to the guidelines in their eyes. I wasn't aware that this was a guideline. I'm still not sure if it is either to be honest...

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts Kaitlyn, I just get a little confused by it sometimes.
Hi, Ben,

Just a quick note about the #4; I think the editors can only mark sexual content rating as a guideline breach if you chose 5 and did not mention in your review that there's explicit sexual content in the book, or something up to that level. I have not seen your review or your sexual content rating, but I would almost think you might want to consider asking for an editor recheck.

Thank you for further sharing your thoughts,
Kirsi
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Post by Ben Madeley »

Kirsi C wrote: 01 Mar 2023, 04:26
Ben Madeley wrote: 28 Feb 2023, 21:29
Kaitlyn Canedy wrote: 28 Feb 2023, 12:49

Hi,

Thank you for reaching out. We appreciate your feedback about the editing system. I have some comments/questions about your responses, if I may-

1. I agree with the issue with variation when it comes the editor scores. In your example, this difference is quite stark. I know there are rules in place for editors who are not scoring reviews correctly, but my knowledge of the criteria used is limited. Perhaps @Alice in Scotland can provide more details about how this works?

3. When a reviewer appeals a scorecard, the appeal goes to the editor who scored the review. How would the appeal process be quicker, even if the reviewer would only be seeking clarification?

4. The sexual content scale depends on the level of sexual content in the book. What I like to do is quote the exact sentence(s) that has sexual content (or what I perceive as such), then use this to mark the scale. In all honesty, unless an editor has actually read the book themselves, they cannot possibly know what level of sexual content is in a book, if there is even any at all.

I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks!
Thanks for your comments Kaitlyn.

With point 3, I meant that when the second editor scores the review and it is different to the first editors score, it automatically gets sent back to both editors to check and I think this is sometimes unnecessary because if I could appeal to the second editor, I could point out the error that I think they made and they could correct the scorecard if I was indeed correct and we wouldn't need to have the prolonged check. I think that could happen first.

4. Yes I was happy with my judgement of the sexual content because I had made notes and checked them against the scorecard, so I was surprised that one of the editors disagreed with me and also surprised that this meant my review did not adhere to the guidelines in their eyes. I wasn't aware that this was a guideline. I'm still not sure if it is either to be honest...

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts Kaitlyn, I just get a little confused by it sometimes.
Hi, Ben,

Just a quick note about the #4; I think the editors can only mark sexual content rating as a guideline breach if you chose 5 and did not mention in your review that there's explicit sexual content in the book, or something up to that level. I have not seen your review or your sexual content rating, but I would almost think you might want to consider asking for an editor recheck.

Thank you for further sharing your thoughts,
Thanks for the advice Kirsi, yes I would have done but it's gone for an automatic recheck as the 1st editor gave me 100% for the review and I'm just waiting for the outcome.

Regards,

Ben
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Post by Allison Beard Vion »

I appreciate this conversation because I have this issue often in my reviews (conflicting objective scores). This conversation indicates that there is a way to appeal the first scorecard. I haven't seen this option given, and can't find where to do it. Can you please clarify?
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Post by Jeremie Mondejar »

Allison Beard Vion wrote: 28 May 2023, 18:04 I appreciate this conversation because I have this issue often in my reviews (conflicting objective scores). This conversation indicates that there is a way to appeal the first scorecard. I haven't seen this option given, and can't find where to do it. Can you please clarify?
Hi,

Thank you for reaching out. If you think you are right, you can ask for a recheck. Kindly click on the editor's score and ask for a recheck. On the same page, you will notice an admin recheck, too. I hope this helps you clarify your query.

Have a great day. If you have any other concerns, please let us know.

Thank you. :tiphat:
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Post by Allison Beard Vion »

Hello Jeremie. Thank you for your response. In this case, because there was a discrepancy between the two editors, there is a paragraph that says there is no need for a recheck. However, I still would like one because I also disagree on a section that they have in common. In this case, both said I did not adhere to the guidelines because I did not mention the editing of the book. However, the current guidelines state that editing should be noted as outstanding if there are zero errors; this book had two that I marked. I see nothing in the guidelines stating that it is required to note the quality of editing. Am I mistaken?
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Post by Melisa Jane »

Allison Beard Vion wrote: 29 May 2023, 10:42 Hello Jeremie. Thank you for your response. In this case, because there was a discrepancy between the two editors, there is a paragraph that says there is no need for a recheck. However, I still would like one because I also disagree on a section that they have in common. In this case, both said I did not adhere to the guidelines because I did not mention the editing of the book. However, the current guidelines state that editing should be noted as outstanding if there are zero errors; this book had two that I marked. I see nothing in the guidelines stating that it is required to note the quality of editing. Am I mistaken?
Hi,

Thank you for the inquiry. Once the editors resolve the section that they disagree on, you'll be able to request a recheck, in case you do not agree with the scorecard. Please give them some time to decide on that other objective section, then request a recheck.

Thank you.
Melissa.
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