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One of the intriguing concepts in The Advent of Time is the idea of "non-time," which refers to a timeless state of existence that humanity supposedly experienced before the Fall. According to the book, this state allowed humans to live in perfect harmony with God, free from suffering and the constraints of time. The Fall, however, introduced the experience of time, which brought with it aging, decay, and ultimately, suffering.

This concept raises a compelling question: How would a timeless existence change our understanding of life, love, and suffering?

In our time-bound world, we experience life as a series of moments, one after another. Every decision and action we take is tied to time, and we often make choices based on the limited time we have. In a state of "non-time," however, there would be no past or future—only an eternal present. This could allow for a deeper, more constant experience of love and connection with God, as it removes the anxieties and limitations imposed by the passage of time.

This notion of "non-time" offers a way to reconcile the idea of a perfect creation with the reality of evolutionary history. The book suggests that time itself is a product of the Fall, something that came into being when humanity turned away from God. Under this view, the universe as we know it—with its vast ages of evolution and suffering—is a consequence of humanity’s departure from that original timeless state.

Imagining a world without time also invites us to reconsider what suffering truly means. In a time-bound world, suffering is magnified by our awareness of it stretching over moments, days, and years. In a timeless state, however, suffering may not exist at all, as pain and loss are tied to the passage of time. This gives a fascinating perspective on how our experience of time may be an intrinsic part of why we suffer, and why we long for an existence beyond time, in which pain no longer has a hold over us.

Reflecting on the concept of "non-time" can inspire us to think about our lives in the context of eternity. While we live in a world bound by time, the idea that there could be a reality beyond it offers hope for a future where suffering is no more. For those who follow the Christian faith, this aligns with the belief in eternal life with God, a life that transcends the limitations of time and restores the harmony that humanity once had.

This concept is both comforting and challenging. On one hand, it offers hope that our suffering is temporary and that a timeless existence with God awaits. On the other, it reminds us of the fragility of our current experience and encourages us to seek deeper meaning beyond the constraints of time.

The concept of "non-time" in The Advent of Time suggests that before the Fall, humanity lived in a timeless, harmonious state with God, free from suffering. Time, introduced by the Fall, brings aging and pain. A timeless existence would transcend suffering, offering a deeper connection with God and eternal peace.

The concept of non-time has a deep explanation. It can only be understood individually.

It is interesting and valuable to see how different people understand and envision timeless existence. Where one person has some uncertainty or a gap, another can bring clarity or a new perspective. Thank you!

The concept of "non-time" in reference to our relationship with God is sometimes hard to understand. Prior to the fall from grace, man was in a wonderful relationship with God that had no boundary of time. After the fall, our lives are under a constant time restraint. When we rejoin God for eternity, we will revert back to "non-time" and a pain-free existence.

This is an interesting take on the understanding of a world with timeless existence, and it's quite reassuring as well.

I really enjoyed this book!

However, there is one fatal flaw to this entire thought process: Genesis never actually states that there was no suffering or death before the fall. This assumption of a pre-Fall perfect, deathless world, is not actually found in the text. And this undermines the very basis of this book.

This book hinges on this underlying assumption that isn't actually evident in the text.

Genesis 2:16-17 NRSV
[16] And the Lord God commanded the man, “You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; [17] but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die.”

Indeed, if we examine this passage closely, it never says that animals were not otherwise suffering and dying elsewhere. It never says that Adam and Eve or any human being anywhere, were not eating animals, as we do today. Nor does it say that there was no animal predation of other animals, be it inside or outside of Eden.

It simply says that if Adam and Eve ate or a particular tree, that they would die.

But even with respect to Adam and Eve, the only reason they die, is stated right there in Genesis:

Genesis 3:22-24 NRSV
[22] Then the Lord God said, “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— [23] therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. [24] He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of life.

They die, not because they've transitioned a space time continuum. Rather, they will die because they can't access the fruit of the tree of life. The text never says that they are inherently immortal. It simply says that, upon losing access to the tree, they will die. Suggesting that they were always mortal, but that the tree of life sustained them, in some sense.

All that aside, the question of animal suffering and death is not discussed here.

Lastly, Eden is a place on earth. Eden is described as being adjacent to the Tigris and Euphrates river, in Genesis.

Genesis 2:10, 14 NRSV
[10] A river flows out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it divides and becomes four branches.
[14] The name of the third river is Tigris, which flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

So it is not as though Adam and Eve were in some sort of alternate timeless dimension. The text never suggests such a thing. Rather, the text suggests that they were always right here on earth, where we experience a normal timeline.

The book additionally references the book of Isaiah, however, even passages related to the lion and the lamb on describe the protection of domesticated animals of the human domain. Never do they describe the protection of animals of the broader animal kingdom.

Lastly, the terms for Subdue and Rule/Have dominion over, in Genesis 1:28 are commonly used in the old testament in circumstances that involve suffering and death. Suggesting that mankind, even before the fall, may very well have been given dominion over animals in a way in which mankind might eat them, or use animals for clothing or other means. This would comfortably align with an ancient Israelite understanding of creation in a broader ancient near east context.

Tarana Bagotia wrote: ↑08 Oct 2024, 08:15 One of the intriguing concepts in The Advent of Time is the idea of "non-time," which refers to a timeless state of existence that humanity supposedly experienced before the Fall. According to the book, this state allowed humans to live in perfect harmony with God, free from suffering and the constraints of time. The Fall, however, introduced the experience of time, which brought with it aging, decay, and ultimately, suffering.

This concept raises a compelling question: How would a timeless existence change our understanding of life, love, and suffering?

In our time-bound world, we experience life as a series of moments, one after another. Every decision and action we take is tied to time, and we often make choices based on the limited time we have. In a state of "non-time," however, there would be no past or future—only an eternal present. This could allow for a deeper, more constant experience of love and connection with God, as it removes the anxieties and limitations imposed by the passage of time.

This notion of "non-time" offers a way to reconcile the idea of a perfect creation with the reality of evolutionary history. The book suggests that time itself is a product of the Fall, something that came into being when humanity turned away from God. Under this view, the universe as we know it—with its vast ages of evolution and suffering—is a consequence of humanity’s departure from that original timeless state.

Imagining a world without time also invites us to reconsider what suffering truly means. In a time-bound world, suffering is magnified by our awareness of it stretching over moments, days, and years. In a timeless state, however, suffering may not exist at all, as pain and loss are tied to the passage of time. This gives a fascinating perspective on how our experience of time may be an intrinsic part of why we suffer, and why we long for an existence beyond time, in which pain no longer has a hold over us.

Reflecting on the concept of "non-time" can inspire us to think about our lives in the context of eternity. While we live in a world bound by time, the idea that there could be a reality beyond it offers hope for a future where suffering is no more. For those who follow the Christian faith, this aligns with the belief in eternal life with God, a life that transcends the limitations of time and restores the harmony that humanity once had.

This concept is both comforting and challenging. On one hand, it offers hope that our suffering is temporary and that a timeless existence with God awaits. On the other, it reminds us of the fragility of our current experience and encourages us to seek deeper meaning beyond the constraints of time.

The Advent of Time explores the concept of "non-time" as a metaphor for a timeless, harmonious relationship with God before the Fall. This concept, which can only be understood individually, suggests that a timeless existence would transcend suffering and offer eternal peace. The concept of non-time is a reassuring perspective on the world, suggesting that when we rejoin God, we will return to a pain-free existence.

This a big one. We live in a time bound world, where there is a phase of our experiences passes or fades out. It beats the imagination to have a single experience in a continuous time or infinity.

One more thought!

One thing that I appreciate about this book is that the author is thinking outside of the box to come up with novel ideas to solve the problem of evil. And he's simultaneously doing it in a way that also serves to help the science-faith intersection. And that is great. I love that about this book, and can't understate how great this approach is.

However, I'll just note one thing. One thing I struggle with in understanding this concept of a timeless pre-Fall world is that, in Genesis, we see things like "there was evening and morning" repeated during the Genesis days before the Fall of Genesis chapter 3. See the following verses for example:

Genesis 1:14 NASB1995
[14] Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;

Genesis 1:19 NASB1995
[19] There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

Here are verses from before the fall, in Genesis. I struggled to reconcile this with the idea of timelessness or non-time in Genesis before the fall. Days, years, and seasons, make these verses sound as if they are describing the normal passage of time, as we know it.

On that note, I'll end my thoughts! Hopefully my comments are received positively! And I apologize if otherwise. Just sharing thoughts for constructive feedback!

The concept of non-time is intriguing. It is like souls, which have no body and no suffering. They also have no time concept and souls are eternal.

Indeed, in a timeless existence, life would be experienced as an eternal present, fostering deeper connections and love without the constraints of aging or suffering. This state could eliminate anxiety tied to past regrets or future uncertainties.

I really wonder how it would have been if we were still existing in the timeless era. Does it mean that people would rush to get married? Does it mean that humanity will truly adore and love God? there is no way to know now. is there?