OnlineBookClub.org

I have only read two of Oates' books "Give me your Heart" and on Fran's advice "We were the Mulvaneys". I must say that I love both of these books and will be searching out more of her books, I think "The Female of the species" will be next.

For anyone who has read "We were the Mulvaneys" I have a question. Out of all the family members the father seems to take Marianne's supposed rape the hardest. From the minute he finds out, the incident literally destroys his current way of life and he starts on a long spiral into seperation, alcoholism, and depression. Do you think that he had a mental illness and this would have happened anyway? Was the rape just the catalyst that pushed him over the edge? Was he always going to end up this way without medical help? It is alluded to a couple of times in the book. "Dad was in such a mood these days swinging between lethargy and mania". Perhaps he was bi-polar. If you have read the book and agree or disagree please let me know your thoughts on the matter.

Gannon wrote:I have only read two of Oates' books "Give me your Heart" and on Fran's advice "We were the Mulvaneys". I must say that I love both of these books and will be searching out more of her books, I think "The Female of the species" will be next.

For anyone who has read "We were the Mulvaneys" I have a question. Out of all the family members the father seems to take Marianne's supposed rape the hardest. From the minute he finds out, the incident literally destroys his current way of life and he starts on a long spiral into seperation, alcoholism, and depression. Do you think that he had a mental illness and this would have happened anyway? Was the rape just the catalyst that pushed him over the edge? Was he always going to end up this way without medical help? It is alluded to a couple of times in the book. "Dad was in such a mood these days swinging between lethargy and mania". Perhaps he was bi-polar. If you have read the book and agree or disagree please let me know your thoughts on the matter.

Good idea to set up a thread for Joyce .... I think it was way back in 2008 I read the Mulvaney's so my mermory is a bit vague (apart from remembering it as a really great book) but my recollection is that I felt the cracks were there already but 'papered over' as it were by the family's apparently perfect lifestyle. As often happens in families, they were able to hold it together while there was no real pressure but the rape and their reactions to it really exposed the fault lines. I also felt that, again as often happens, the rape had a devastating effect on the father's concept of his role both as a father and as a man. I think I would probably agree that there was an element of mental instability in the father to begin with.

****** SPOILER ALERT *******



Which family member do you think the rape affects the most. A quick answer would have to be the father, however is he affected the worst or just handling it the worst. On the other hand does it affect the mother the most and she is just handling it better. She is a very strong character. The brothers all handle it differently. Mike jnr goes off and joins the marines, Patrick actually contemplates killing Zachary and nearly goes through with it, and Judd I think is a little young to fully understand everything that is going on, I mean he knows what has happened, he just does not appreciate how devastating the incident is and the repurcussions it is going to have.
I think I would have to say the father is affected the most. Before the rape he is a proud man, and well respected in the community. After the rape he loses more that just his business. He literally loses everything. His standing in the community, his pride, and eventually his health and life. Thats just my opinion, does anybody think that one of the other characters is affected worse than the father?

G'day Gannon, just popped in to say that I'm ordering "Give Me Your Heart" by Joyce Carol Oates. Finally!!

Maud Fitch wrote:G'day Gannon, just popped in to say that I'm ordering "Give Me Your Heart" by Joyce Carol Oates. Finally!!

Delighted to hear that Maud ... I do hope you enjoy it & will be awaiting your review with 'bated breath'.

@ Maud

It really is a great collection of short stories Maud. I think you will love it. Like Fran said, let us know what you think and your favourite story. As I have posted before mine is "Smother", one of the best short stories I have read.

@ Fran

Hey Fran I cannot remember if I have posted about Richard North Patterson before but he is one of my favourites. I have "Exile" and "The Race" and about five of his other books. Have you read "Protect and Defend" and "Balance of Power". I think that these two are his best work.

Gannon wrote:@ Maud

It really is a great collection of short stories Maud. I think you will love it. Like Fran said, let us know what you think and your favourite story. As I have posted before mine is "Smother", one of the best short stories I have read.

@ Fran

Hey Fran I cannot remember if I have posted about Richard North Patterson before but he is one of my favourites. I have "Exile" and "The Race" and about five of his other books. Have you read "Protect and Defend" and "Balance of Power". I think that these two are his best work.

Yea I've read The Race & Exile & rate very highly ... haven't read the other two but they are now added to the TBR list.

Gannon wrote:@ Maud. It really is a great collection of short stories Maud. I think you will love it. Like Fran said, let us know what you think and your favourite story. As I have posted before mine is "Smother", one of the best short stories I have read.

Whoa, Gannon, déjà vu or ESP or something like that! The book actually fell open at "Smother" and I started reading this story first - then I logged on and read your post. It is a magnificent piece of writing, it certainly gets the brain ticking. Since I haven't had time to read any of the others yet, I will reserve my judgement before I proclaim it 'pick of the litter' but I'm sure you're right.

Postscript: I've been meaning to ask if either of you have read Flannery O'Connor? Some titles are "Wise Blood", "Everything That Rises Must Converge", "A Good Man Is Hard To Find" and "The Violent Bear It Away". I once read "Good Country People" and from there I was hooked. O'Connor's short stories influenced legions of US writers (and students) with her telling detail, a gesture, an action or even a simple line of dialogue, perhaps a tad dated now but similar to an early Joyce Carol Oates.

[
@ Fran

Hey Fran I cannot remember if I have posted about Richard North Patterson before but he is one of my favourites. I have "Exile" and "The Race" and about five of his other books. Have you read "Protect and Defend" and "Balance of Power". I think that these two are his best work.[/quote]

I was listening to Balance of Power on CD but it was sooo long! It was due back at the library and I couldn't renew it. I found that the politics started to cloud the plot so much that it almost became a chore to follow. Is it worth sticking with until the end. I was only on the 9th cd out of 18! I did listen to Silent Witness and really enjoyed that one.

A24 wrote:[
@ Fran

Hey Fran I cannot remember if I have posted about Richard North Patterson before but he is one of my favourites. I have "Exile" and "The Race" and about five of his other books. Have you read "Protect and Defend" and "Balance of Power". I think that these two are his best work.

I was listening to Balance of Power on CD but it was sooo long! It was due back at the library and I couldn't renew it. I found that the politics started to cloud the plot so much that it almost became a chore to follow. Is it worth sticking with until the end. I was only on the 9th cd out of 18! I did listen to Silent Witness and really enjoyed that one.[/quote]

Hey there A24 that post is actually mine, Gannon. I know what you mean about "Balance of Power", its whole plot and story revolve around politics and the courtroom with the new President Kilcannon trying to change America's gun laws. I absolutely love it, but thats because I love political thrillers. Going by your post I don't think you would enjoy the rest of it. You may want to try his other books "The Race" or "Exile", not to much politics in these but still great books. I think "Protect and Defend" is his best book to date, however it is very political, similar to "Balance of Power". It is a thrilling courtroom drama where a young girl has to take her parents to court to protect her rights to bear children in the future. A book about the pro-life, pro-choice debate that still rages on in the states.

@Maud

That is spooky, I am glad that you and Fran both agree as to what a brilliant short story "Smother" is. I had to read it again after finishing it. Hope you find the rest of the book as good. Let us know Maud. Speaking of spooky feelings, I have a feeling that my Jasper Fford is going to show up today, lets see if I am right.

Flannery O'Connor sounds like my type of author. I will have to keep an eye out for her, thanks for the tip Maud.

Totally wrung out after reading "Give Me Your Heart" by Joyce Carol Oates, ten short stories about ordinary yet emotionally brutal people.

Maud Fitch wrote:Totally wrung out after reading "Give Me Your Heart" by Joyce Carol Oates, ten short stories about ordinary yet emotionally brutal people.

Howdy there Maud. Does that mean you liked it or not? It sounds like you did not like it. I admit that it is a collection of pretty dark stories but I love them, as well as Oates' brilliant writing.

Edit - Maud I just read your excellent review on the "last book read" thread. I am so glad you liked it, I agree with everything you said. I will be looking for more of her books in the future.

-- Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:48 pm --

@Fran
I am about 15 chapters into "The Gravedigger's Daughter". Oates really is an amazing writer. So far it is a tale of unbelievable hardship and despair. It is only the third book of hers that I have read, but the hardship and despair seem to be a common theme among these books. Re The Gravedigger's Daughter, it really opens your eyes to how terrible life can be, especially in times of war and unrest. I have to get the Ipad back so I can see what is going to happen to this poor family.

I've now read a few Joyce Carol Oates books and I find them deeply unnerving, very memorable and highly original so thought I'd post a review of her latest novel. I can recommend her work if you're interested in something different.

"Carthage" was reviewed for The Guardian by Frances Perraudin, published 19 January, 2014.

Heading "When a young woman disappears, a town in upstate New York finds itself exposed to the brutal effects of war in distant Iraq".

"There is no doubt that Joyce Carol Oates is an adept and fluent writer. Since publishing her first novel in 1964, she has written over 40 more, three of them published last year. She is a rare example of a prolific author who has managed to maintain her reputation as a serious literary novelist. As John Updike said, if the phrase "woman of letters" existed, Oates would be the person most entitled to it. Set in the upstate New York town of Carthage, her latest work details the shock that runs through the Mayfield family when their dysfunctional 19-year-old daughter Cressida disappears into the desolate Adirondack mountains. As the community gathers to search for her in the wilds, evidence against Brett Kincaid, decorated Iraq war veteran and former fiance of the disappeared's beautiful sister, begins to grow.

We are intermittently shown flashbacks of atrocities the young corporal witnessed (and half-participated in) before he was "honourably discharged". His experiences in Iraq are confused with the present in Carthage, and the brutality of a conflict – so far from America – seems to invade the comfortable safety of the town: "wars were monstrous, and made monsters of those who waged them".

The plot takes bizarre and unexpected turns that – if you make it past the slightly laboured first 200 pages – keep you absorbed until the end. What at first appears to be a straightforward narrative, of a family torn apart by a loss caused by a distant war, develops into an exploration of violence in a much wider sense – psychological and emotional.

Carthage is an immensely proficient novel, with careful and elegant prose, and interesting experiments with form. Although it is hard to empathise with some of the characters, despite the time taken to relay events from each individual's perspective, this doesn't prevent it from being an intriguing and unpredictable read. Oates succeeds in portraying the complex damage done to the fabric of a society by war – no matter how far away it is."

Perhaps you've read one of her novels but here's a list of recent titles:

Mother, Missing
After the Wreck, I Picked Myself Up, Spread My Wings, and Flew Away
Black Girl, White Girl
The Gravedigger's Daughter
My Sister, My Love: The Intimate Story of Skyler Rampike
A Fair Maiden
Little Bird Of Heaven
Mudwoman
Two or Three Things I Forgot to Tell You
Daddy Love
The Accursed

@Maud
"She is a rare example of a prolific author who has managed to maintain her reputation as a serious literary novelist." ... I could not agree more, a truly wonderful, gifter & original author.
Carthage is another one for my TBR

Fran wrote:"She is a rare example of a prolific author who has managed to maintain her reputation as a serious literary novelist." ..I could not agree more, a truly wonderful, gifted & original author. Carthage is another one for my TBR

So true, Fran, there's not many who can successfully maintain the pace. Judging by my TBR list, I may get to read "Carthage" around October!