Sold my book to a publisher, new writers see this info!
-
moderntimes
- Posts: 2249
- Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 13:03
- Favorite Book: Ulysses by James Joyce
- Currently Reading: Grendel by John Gardner
- Bookshelf Size: 0
Sold my book to a publisher, new writers see this info!
For the moderators: This thread is not meant to publicize my books for garnering sales or favorable ratings. I will not mention the publisher’s name nor even my book titles. When my new novel comes out from the publisher later this year, the publisher will submit it for review through the normal channels.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the route to conventional publishing via a “standard” house, not a subsidy or vanity house, and not self-publishing either. My intention is to provide a way for new authors to ask questions about the methods for gaining recognition and a contract for conventional publishing, and I’ll do my best to answer all questions fully and honestly, other than to divulge terms of my contract, which is of course confidential. Suffice to say that it’s a standard boilerplate contract in which the publisher bears all costs and I get paid royalties on print and e-book sales.
What I want to do here is to provide new writers with the necessary info on how they can proceed to get their book accepted by a conventional publisher and what to expect during the process. I’ll continue to update this thread as things proceed.
So... Good news! I just received an email from a publisher to whom I sent my recently completed private detective novel, 3rd in the series. The publisher has accepted not just the new book but the first 2 as well, and will re-edit and publish all three!
This publisher is a standard house, one that pays the author, not the other way around. In other words, not a subsidy or “vanity” publisher. This publisher will edit and work with me on revising my books, and then they’ll be out in both trade paperback and e-book format what I guesstimate will be late this fall.
Naturally, I’m ecstatic but the reason I am posting this is not to brag, but to inform those of you who aren’t yet published that you CAN get this done professionally, by a “real” publisher, not a vanity house or not resort to self-publishing on maybe Amazon.
And furthermore, the stories that circulate here and elsewhere about conventional publishers being predatory are just not true. I’ve been published professionally (paid real money) for years, short stories, articles, essays, and novels. Yes there are scam publishers out there and you’ve got to be cautious. But if you take some time to evaluate things and use good common sense, you will find legitimate publishers who will honestly evaluate your book and perhaps accept the book and offer you a standard “boilerplate” contract. I’ll be happy to provide you any info I can on avoiding scams.
Is it hard to get placed? Absolutely. Is it worth it? You betcha! The prospect of going into a local bookstore and seeing your book on the shelves for sale is an awesome feeling. And yeah, the money’s nice too, but that’s almost secondary to the thought that your book competed with the marketplace and was considered by professionals to be worthy.
Don’t get too excited about the money, either. For a newbie writer, sales aren’t likely to be huge and so your royalties will be modest, a few thousand at most, more likely earning in the hundreds. Of course there’s always the chance that the book will hit the big time. It does happen, just don’t hold your breath.
Another word about pay and writing “for the money” which is often sneered at by some as “selling out” and those folks seem to think that self-publishing is the only way for a writer of such elite, special, and unique talents (ha ha) to lower oneself to the masses. BS. I write “for the money” because that money, however sparse for an unknown author, is a measure of acceptance into the big leagues. But in truth, I’d write nevertheless. When I first started writing my private detective stories, I was just playing around, being a detective fan for years, and thought “I can do that” and proceeded to do just that. So yeah, money is nice but it’s secondary to the idea of someone else publishing your book in the “real world” and stocking it in bookstores and such. There are very few writers who aren’t at all interested in the money and most of these languish. It’s by leaping into the professional publishing market that you can find the true measure of your talents. And if you persevere and keep honing your talents and improving your skills, you can indeed find a genuine publisher and have that first novel on the bookshelves at your local store.
As those of you who’ve been professionally published know, the real work now begins. There will usually be 3 and often 4 edits by the publisher’s staff, and you, the writer, must work diligently with them to see your book onward to completion.
Professional edits include the copy edit, which is just for tpyos (ha ha) and mechanical errors, as well as continuity errors (a character has black hair and partway through the book, has red hair) and also checks for copyright infringement, such as your quoting song lyrics that are ASCAP registered and not in public domain. Next is the line edit, where the publisher’s staff evaluate the story itself, its style, rhythm, flow of the narrative, whether the dialogue is well structured, general stylistic and composition. Then there’s the general edit, usually performed by senior staff. This is an overall look at your plot and characterizations, the whole impact of you novel.
During these edits, the author is very busy. Every few days the edited novel will be emailed to you, usually marked up in MS-Word with markups in the text electronically. You’ve got to review and approve these edits, or make changes and get them back to the publisher quickly.
Some may say, “Well, I heard that publishers take control of your book, change all sorts of things, push you around” and think that self-publishing is the only way to remain “pure” in what you write. To this I say again, BS. If the publisher didn’t like your book in the first place, they wouldn’t have offered you a contract in which they pay all the publishing costs and you get the royalties. Of course, mechanical and grammatical errors are required to be changed, unless of course a typo is part of the story line, like a kidnapper sending a ransom note and misspelling “ransome” by which they find the crook. But otherwise, yeah, you must fix all typos. But stylistic changes? You are the arbiter of this although your publisher may be very insistent on some things. For example, if your book includes sexual predation upon children, you may be asked to modify some of the more graphic sections. Realize however that if the publisher didn’t want to have such in the book at all, they wouldn’t have accepted it and offered you a contract. But maybe some passages are just too horrific and they ask you to tone them down? This could happen.
More likely, the senior editors will say “Maybe you can tell us more about Marie here? A little more description about her would help the reader identify with her.” Things like that, suggestions for improving the narrative or dialogue. “In chapter 8, you have Edgar making a lot of grammatical errors in his conversation with Donna. But Edgar’s college educated and he’s an attorney, so maybe he wouldn’t make such mistakes?” Again, style changes that the editors see as maybe needed. You as the author will be asked therefore to justify why Edgar makes these mistakes. What usually happens is that the editors will make some very good recommendations and you’ll “see the light” and change maybe 2/3 of the places where they ask, and maybe you’ll stick to your guns for the other 1/3 of the suggestions. But you will be asked to justify the areas where there is disagreement, which hones your judgment and provokes you to reconsider things carefully. Realize that these senior editors have seen a lot of books and know what works best, so generally their recommendations are good ones. Do you have to change everything? No, but you may be asked to state why you want to stand your ground and stick by your guns.
As the editing proceeds on the book, cover art and author’s mug shot and such continues, I’ll give updates so as to help new writers learn the process. Aside from editing the text, the cover art will be shown you for approval, and you’ll need to send them an author’s photo and biography, other info.
When the book is in its final preparation stages, the publisher will create what are known as “galley proofs” which are the final page formatting and complete text of the novel. This will be your last chance to change things so you really have to pore over that galley proof to ensure that you’ve got it down pat. After the galleys are approved, if you’ve got changes, they make you pay for them and that comes out of your royalties. This is, again, a standard contract clause.
Copyright? Here’s how it works. Most publishing contracts are for 24 months. Full copyright to your book is assigned to the publisher for that term, and then it reverts to you unless you choose to renew. And part of the contract is that the publisher agrees to actually publish your book within a certain time frame or the contract is void. Any other specific contract questions, please ask. I’ll do my best to reply but I’m of course not allowed to divulge the actual terms of my contract, just general info about it.
So what happens next? Your book will be professionally typeset and it will go to publication, usually both print version (probably in “trade paperback” format -- that 6x9 thick cover larger paperback style, not the little pocketbook style) and e-book, and generally offered to Amazon.
Also, depending on your contract, the book will be publicized in the “trades” -- publisher professional magazines and bulletins. The publisher usually takes out a full page ad and your book is listed on that page in its own box. If the contract is generous, the publisher may give your book a 1/4 page all alone, but this is not what normally happens with new writers. So your book will be grouped along with other new books and all will be equally advertised.
The publisher will also send copies to review sources -- newspapers and magazines, usually genre mags depending on your book. For example, if you’re written an SF novel, they’ll send copies to Astounding SF magazine and so on. The publisher might even pay for an ad in those magazines of the same genre you’re writing.
Bookstore stocking is tricky. Major publishers have existing agreements with the big brick & mortar stores, and these stores will order copies through their wholesale distributor. For small publishers, the type you’re likely to land with, individual stores may or may not choose to stock your book. This is where you will need to pound the pavement on your own behalf, ensuring that your local stores order and stock your book. The publisher will also likely ask you to publicize your book via social media, Twitter and Facebook and maybe your own website. The publisher of course has its own Facebook and Amazon page and they will publicize your book there, too.
And good luck out there!
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the route to conventional publishing via a “standard” house, not a subsidy or vanity house, and not self-publishing either. My intention is to provide a way for new authors to ask questions about the methods for gaining recognition and a contract for conventional publishing, and I’ll do my best to answer all questions fully and honestly, other than to divulge terms of my contract, which is of course confidential. Suffice to say that it’s a standard boilerplate contract in which the publisher bears all costs and I get paid royalties on print and e-book sales.
What I want to do here is to provide new writers with the necessary info on how they can proceed to get their book accepted by a conventional publisher and what to expect during the process. I’ll continue to update this thread as things proceed.
So... Good news! I just received an email from a publisher to whom I sent my recently completed private detective novel, 3rd in the series. The publisher has accepted not just the new book but the first 2 as well, and will re-edit and publish all three!
This publisher is a standard house, one that pays the author, not the other way around. In other words, not a subsidy or “vanity” publisher. This publisher will edit and work with me on revising my books, and then they’ll be out in both trade paperback and e-book format what I guesstimate will be late this fall.
Naturally, I’m ecstatic but the reason I am posting this is not to brag, but to inform those of you who aren’t yet published that you CAN get this done professionally, by a “real” publisher, not a vanity house or not resort to self-publishing on maybe Amazon.
And furthermore, the stories that circulate here and elsewhere about conventional publishers being predatory are just not true. I’ve been published professionally (paid real money) for years, short stories, articles, essays, and novels. Yes there are scam publishers out there and you’ve got to be cautious. But if you take some time to evaluate things and use good common sense, you will find legitimate publishers who will honestly evaluate your book and perhaps accept the book and offer you a standard “boilerplate” contract. I’ll be happy to provide you any info I can on avoiding scams.
Is it hard to get placed? Absolutely. Is it worth it? You betcha! The prospect of going into a local bookstore and seeing your book on the shelves for sale is an awesome feeling. And yeah, the money’s nice too, but that’s almost secondary to the thought that your book competed with the marketplace and was considered by professionals to be worthy.
Don’t get too excited about the money, either. For a newbie writer, sales aren’t likely to be huge and so your royalties will be modest, a few thousand at most, more likely earning in the hundreds. Of course there’s always the chance that the book will hit the big time. It does happen, just don’t hold your breath.
Another word about pay and writing “for the money” which is often sneered at by some as “selling out” and those folks seem to think that self-publishing is the only way for a writer of such elite, special, and unique talents (ha ha) to lower oneself to the masses. BS. I write “for the money” because that money, however sparse for an unknown author, is a measure of acceptance into the big leagues. But in truth, I’d write nevertheless. When I first started writing my private detective stories, I was just playing around, being a detective fan for years, and thought “I can do that” and proceeded to do just that. So yeah, money is nice but it’s secondary to the idea of someone else publishing your book in the “real world” and stocking it in bookstores and such. There are very few writers who aren’t at all interested in the money and most of these languish. It’s by leaping into the professional publishing market that you can find the true measure of your talents. And if you persevere and keep honing your talents and improving your skills, you can indeed find a genuine publisher and have that first novel on the bookshelves at your local store.
As those of you who’ve been professionally published know, the real work now begins. There will usually be 3 and often 4 edits by the publisher’s staff, and you, the writer, must work diligently with them to see your book onward to completion.
Professional edits include the copy edit, which is just for tpyos (ha ha) and mechanical errors, as well as continuity errors (a character has black hair and partway through the book, has red hair) and also checks for copyright infringement, such as your quoting song lyrics that are ASCAP registered and not in public domain. Next is the line edit, where the publisher’s staff evaluate the story itself, its style, rhythm, flow of the narrative, whether the dialogue is well structured, general stylistic and composition. Then there’s the general edit, usually performed by senior staff. This is an overall look at your plot and characterizations, the whole impact of you novel.
During these edits, the author is very busy. Every few days the edited novel will be emailed to you, usually marked up in MS-Word with markups in the text electronically. You’ve got to review and approve these edits, or make changes and get them back to the publisher quickly.
Some may say, “Well, I heard that publishers take control of your book, change all sorts of things, push you around” and think that self-publishing is the only way to remain “pure” in what you write. To this I say again, BS. If the publisher didn’t like your book in the first place, they wouldn’t have offered you a contract in which they pay all the publishing costs and you get the royalties. Of course, mechanical and grammatical errors are required to be changed, unless of course a typo is part of the story line, like a kidnapper sending a ransom note and misspelling “ransome” by which they find the crook. But otherwise, yeah, you must fix all typos. But stylistic changes? You are the arbiter of this although your publisher may be very insistent on some things. For example, if your book includes sexual predation upon children, you may be asked to modify some of the more graphic sections. Realize however that if the publisher didn’t want to have such in the book at all, they wouldn’t have accepted it and offered you a contract. But maybe some passages are just too horrific and they ask you to tone them down? This could happen.
More likely, the senior editors will say “Maybe you can tell us more about Marie here? A little more description about her would help the reader identify with her.” Things like that, suggestions for improving the narrative or dialogue. “In chapter 8, you have Edgar making a lot of grammatical errors in his conversation with Donna. But Edgar’s college educated and he’s an attorney, so maybe he wouldn’t make such mistakes?” Again, style changes that the editors see as maybe needed. You as the author will be asked therefore to justify why Edgar makes these mistakes. What usually happens is that the editors will make some very good recommendations and you’ll “see the light” and change maybe 2/3 of the places where they ask, and maybe you’ll stick to your guns for the other 1/3 of the suggestions. But you will be asked to justify the areas where there is disagreement, which hones your judgment and provokes you to reconsider things carefully. Realize that these senior editors have seen a lot of books and know what works best, so generally their recommendations are good ones. Do you have to change everything? No, but you may be asked to state why you want to stand your ground and stick by your guns.
As the editing proceeds on the book, cover art and author’s mug shot and such continues, I’ll give updates so as to help new writers learn the process. Aside from editing the text, the cover art will be shown you for approval, and you’ll need to send them an author’s photo and biography, other info.
When the book is in its final preparation stages, the publisher will create what are known as “galley proofs” which are the final page formatting and complete text of the novel. This will be your last chance to change things so you really have to pore over that galley proof to ensure that you’ve got it down pat. After the galleys are approved, if you’ve got changes, they make you pay for them and that comes out of your royalties. This is, again, a standard contract clause.
Copyright? Here’s how it works. Most publishing contracts are for 24 months. Full copyright to your book is assigned to the publisher for that term, and then it reverts to you unless you choose to renew. And part of the contract is that the publisher agrees to actually publish your book within a certain time frame or the contract is void. Any other specific contract questions, please ask. I’ll do my best to reply but I’m of course not allowed to divulge the actual terms of my contract, just general info about it.
So what happens next? Your book will be professionally typeset and it will go to publication, usually both print version (probably in “trade paperback” format -- that 6x9 thick cover larger paperback style, not the little pocketbook style) and e-book, and generally offered to Amazon.
Also, depending on your contract, the book will be publicized in the “trades” -- publisher professional magazines and bulletins. The publisher usually takes out a full page ad and your book is listed on that page in its own box. If the contract is generous, the publisher may give your book a 1/4 page all alone, but this is not what normally happens with new writers. So your book will be grouped along with other new books and all will be equally advertised.
The publisher will also send copies to review sources -- newspapers and magazines, usually genre mags depending on your book. For example, if you’re written an SF novel, they’ll send copies to Astounding SF magazine and so on. The publisher might even pay for an ad in those magazines of the same genre you’re writing.
Bookstore stocking is tricky. Major publishers have existing agreements with the big brick & mortar stores, and these stores will order copies through their wholesale distributor. For small publishers, the type you’re likely to land with, individual stores may or may not choose to stock your book. This is where you will need to pound the pavement on your own behalf, ensuring that your local stores order and stock your book. The publisher will also likely ask you to publicize your book via social media, Twitter and Facebook and maybe your own website. The publisher of course has its own Facebook and Amazon page and they will publicize your book there, too.
And good luck out there!
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
-
tbngo28
- Posts: 8
- Joined: 23 Jul 2015, 07:45
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Congrats, I'm looking to self punlish in the near future through Amazon Kindle. Best of luck to you, the information you have provided was beneficial.
-
moderntimes
- Posts: 2249
- Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 13:03
- Favorite Book: Ulysses by James Joyce
- Currently Reading: Grendel by John Gardner
- Bookshelf Size: 0
Well, of course, if you intend to self publish, mot much of what I'm providing will be of much benefit, but should you reconsider and try to seek a conventional publisher first, I'll be happy to help with the search and the results.
-- 25 Jul 2015, 03:53 --
Have just approved the publishing contract and will now be busy working to edit my novels in accordance with the publisher's typography rules, and be ready for the upcoming edits. I'll also need to provide an author biography, head shots, and work with the publisher to select some good cover art for the 3 novels. All need to have a certain artistic theme, of course, so the 3 books will have a similar appearance on bookshelves at stores and online both. Lots of work ahead.
The new contract also includes a first right of refusal for my 4th novel in the series, now in progress. So I'll have to get on the ball and work on that book as well.
Busy!
-- 25 Jul 2015, 03:53 --
Anyone has questions about the publishing process, please ask away.
-- 25 Jul 2015, 03:53 --
Have just approved the publishing contract and will now be busy working to edit my novels in accordance with the publisher's typography rules, and be ready for the upcoming edits. I'll also need to provide an author biography, head shots, and work with the publisher to select some good cover art for the 3 novels. All need to have a certain artistic theme, of course, so the 3 books will have a similar appearance on bookshelves at stores and online both. Lots of work ahead.
The new contract also includes a first right of refusal for my 4th novel in the series, now in progress. So I'll have to get on the ball and work on that book as well.
Busy!
-- 25 Jul 2015, 03:53 --
Anyone has questions about the publishing process, please ask away.
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
-
BookLover2280
- Posts: 25
- Joined: 12 Sep 2015, 10:25
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I'm working on putting the finishes touches to my first book. I'm seriously considering self-publishing through Amazon kindle and CreatSpace. I did a lot of research and went through several companies. Being a newbie is it better for me to go the self-publish route to get my name and work out there to prove what I can do or should I rethink a traditional publisher? I have tried one time to send a synopsis to a publisher and it got rejected because they were only accepting in-house authors. It stung I'll admit it, but I didn't give up I just started looking into self-publishing. I just want to make sure I covered all my options. Thank you in advance for any advice you can give. It's greatly appreciated.
Latest Review: "Magick & Moonlight" by Marie Lavender
-
moderntimes
- Posts: 2249
- Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 13:03
- Favorite Book: Ulysses by James Joyce
- Currently Reading: Grendel by John Gardner
- Bookshelf Size: 0
Well, of course self publishing is fine, and many have chosen this, and w. CreateSpace & Amazon you can put together a nice book.
First, there are no "in house" authors these days. All authors are independent of publishers, but of course they will sign with Simon & Schuster or whomever and if they're treated well, stay. Some fairly well know authors have however switched to a different publisher due to dispute or whatever. Let's face it -- someone like Stevie King can have his agent phone up anyone and he's signed on.
Now my 3-book contract is with a "conventional" publisher, which means zero money from me, the publisher pays all, cover artwork and setup and editing and proofreading, and printing and e-book. They also do a fair amount of advertising although the author (me) is expected to get up a website that's focused on the book(s) and maintain a Facebook & Twitter account to help promote the book.
What I did was first go thru the MWA publisher's list -- MWA (Mystery Writers of America) is the most prestigious assn of that genre, and I sent email queries to all the publishers on their list who accept direct submissions (many larger publishers require agented submissions but that's show biz). I got all "no" so the I turned to the "Preditors & Editors" site -- I highly recommend this site, as it's a nonprofit site that provides lists of scam publishers and so on. I went thru the list and sent in email queries per their requirements.
Some ask only for a query. Many ask for a sample chapter, some ask for the first 3 chapters and so on. I mostly got TBNTs (thanks but no thanks) and a few "nibbles" -- after sending 1 chapter they asked for the first 50 pages, and lo and behold, my new (3rd novel in the series) drew the interest of a small genre publisher -- mystery, romance, SF, fantasy, etc.
My initial query drew a request for the first 3 chapters, then they like that and asked for the whole book, and they said "YES" and then the CEO read my book and she saw that I'd written 2 prior novels in the same series. She asked to see them, and wow, they bought all three. When I say "bought" I mean a standard publishing contract where the author pays ZERO and I get either a small advance or none and then a very standard percent of the royalties on both e-book and print sales. Exact terms are confidential but the terms are standard for a newbie author such as I am.
If you've got the time, I'd spend a couple months prior to the holidays and go to the P&E site and run down the list of publishers, check their websites, and if they seem to fit what you've written, send a query. All it costs is a little time on your part.
Big point - do not get discouraged with TBNTs --- every writer gets them and it's to be expected, as there are more writers than publishers and so they will often say "no thanks" so you just move down the list.
Now many sites say that they do not accept simultaneous admissions. Everyone ignores this. If you only sent to 1 publisher, waiting 6 weeks for a reply, then sent to the next, you'd be doing this till doomsday. What this really means is that yeah, you send lots of queries at the same time, but IF a publisher then asks for the whole book, you out of courtesy suspend any further queries till you hear back. So you only limit submissions if the entire book has been requested.
If you wanna give it a try, go ahead. You can't really lose because if you decide no or if you run out of publishers, then you can go the selfie route.
For more info, PM me and I'll give you my website. I can't do this here because my site is directed toward book sales and so that's not allowed.
Either way, good luck. But hey, I lucked out nicely, and if I can do it, feel free to try, okay?
First, there are no "in house" authors these days. All authors are independent of publishers, but of course they will sign with Simon & Schuster or whomever and if they're treated well, stay. Some fairly well know authors have however switched to a different publisher due to dispute or whatever. Let's face it -- someone like Stevie King can have his agent phone up anyone and he's signed on.
Now my 3-book contract is with a "conventional" publisher, which means zero money from me, the publisher pays all, cover artwork and setup and editing and proofreading, and printing and e-book. They also do a fair amount of advertising although the author (me) is expected to get up a website that's focused on the book(s) and maintain a Facebook & Twitter account to help promote the book.
What I did was first go thru the MWA publisher's list -- MWA (Mystery Writers of America) is the most prestigious assn of that genre, and I sent email queries to all the publishers on their list who accept direct submissions (many larger publishers require agented submissions but that's show biz). I got all "no" so the I turned to the "Preditors & Editors" site -- I highly recommend this site, as it's a nonprofit site that provides lists of scam publishers and so on. I went thru the list and sent in email queries per their requirements.
Some ask only for a query. Many ask for a sample chapter, some ask for the first 3 chapters and so on. I mostly got TBNTs (thanks but no thanks) and a few "nibbles" -- after sending 1 chapter they asked for the first 50 pages, and lo and behold, my new (3rd novel in the series) drew the interest of a small genre publisher -- mystery, romance, SF, fantasy, etc.
My initial query drew a request for the first 3 chapters, then they like that and asked for the whole book, and they said "YES" and then the CEO read my book and she saw that I'd written 2 prior novels in the same series. She asked to see them, and wow, they bought all three. When I say "bought" I mean a standard publishing contract where the author pays ZERO and I get either a small advance or none and then a very standard percent of the royalties on both e-book and print sales. Exact terms are confidential but the terms are standard for a newbie author such as I am.
If you've got the time, I'd spend a couple months prior to the holidays and go to the P&E site and run down the list of publishers, check their websites, and if they seem to fit what you've written, send a query. All it costs is a little time on your part.
Big point - do not get discouraged with TBNTs --- every writer gets them and it's to be expected, as there are more writers than publishers and so they will often say "no thanks" so you just move down the list.
Now many sites say that they do not accept simultaneous admissions. Everyone ignores this. If you only sent to 1 publisher, waiting 6 weeks for a reply, then sent to the next, you'd be doing this till doomsday. What this really means is that yeah, you send lots of queries at the same time, but IF a publisher then asks for the whole book, you out of courtesy suspend any further queries till you hear back. So you only limit submissions if the entire book has been requested.
If you wanna give it a try, go ahead. You can't really lose because if you decide no or if you run out of publishers, then you can go the selfie route.
For more info, PM me and I'll give you my website. I can't do this here because my site is directed toward book sales and so that's not allowed.
Either way, good luck. But hey, I lucked out nicely, and if I can do it, feel free to try, okay?
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
-
BookLover2280
- Posts: 25
- Joined: 12 Sep 2015, 10:25
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- Currently Reading: Fifty Shades Darker
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- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-booklover2280.html
- Latest Review: "Magick & Moonlight" by Marie Lavender
- Reading Device: B00JG8GOWU
Thank you so much for your help. I'd love to visit your website. I've worked long and hard on this book so, I want to make sure it ends up in the right hands. It sounds funny, but it's like one of my kids.
Latest Review: "Magick & Moonlight" by Marie Lavender
-
moderntimes
- Posts: 2249
- Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 13:03
- Favorite Book: Ulysses by James Joyce
- Currently Reading: Grendel by John Gardner
- Bookshelf Size: 0
Just PM me and I'll give you the website link.
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
-
BookLover2280
- Posts: 25
- Joined: 12 Sep 2015, 10:25
- Favorite Book: <a href="http://forums.onlinebookclub.org/shelve ... d=2735">To Kill a Mockingbird</a>
- Currently Reading: Fifty Shades Darker
- Bookshelf Size: 37
- Reviewer Page: onlinebookclub.org/reviews/by-booklover2280.html
- Latest Review: "Magick & Moonlight" by Marie Lavender
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I tried to pm you, but I'm brand new so I can't until I've been a member for 3 days. I tried like three times because I thought maybe I'd been up too long and just didn't read it right....lol.... Been a long night where coffee is my best friends this morning. If you can pm me the link or I could give you my e-mail address if that's allowed.
Latest Review: "Magick & Moonlight" by Marie Lavender
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TPArchie
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Hi ModernTime
Congrats on a publish deal. Respect for someone who's got a foot in the door. I like detective fiction; it's got a great, compelling writing model that delivers tension and excitement. Write what you know they say. I don't write that genre but I admire it.
As far as the publishing process goes, what you say is about what I'd expect and I found the edit detail particularly interesting. A professional edit is the very least a book deserves; assuming a writer cares about his / her product. I tried self-editing back in 2010/11 and discovered something important: I didn't want to self-edit. I hire copy-editors. Given the choice I'd hook up with a publisher.
Congrats on a publish deal. Respect for someone who's got a foot in the door. I like detective fiction; it's got a great, compelling writing model that delivers tension and excitement. Write what you know they say. I don't write that genre but I admire it.
As far as the publishing process goes, what you say is about what I'd expect and I found the edit detail particularly interesting. A professional edit is the very least a book deserves; assuming a writer cares about his / her product. I tried self-editing back in 2010/11 and discovered something important: I didn't want to self-edit. I hire copy-editors. Given the choice I'd hook up with a publisher.
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moderntimes
- Posts: 2249
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Well, TP, "given the choice" I'd elect for a $500,000 advance too. But it ain't gonna happen, ha ha.
Getting signed onto a non-subsidy publisher (where I pay zero) isn't a choice -- it resulted in maybe 3 months of continual query sending, many many query letters, many "first 3 chapters" submitted, and of course, many TBNTs (thanks but no thanks). But I did luck out and was offered a 3-book contract, pretty keen for a fledgling novelist.
When I say "fledgling" I mean that yeah, I've been writing and making small sales here and there all my life, largest was a sale to a national mag for $1000 but most far smaller, plus the standard $25 or so for writing movie & book reviews for a newspaper, pocket change mostly. But placing a novel is a big difference.
Why? Well, if you sell a short story, for example, the publisher pays you maybe $50 and your story is only one of 20 in the printing. So they are only taking a 1/20th chance. But a novel is a whole different ballgame. I means that the publisher will likely spend $1000 or more putting your book together -- editing, print layout, cover art costs, etc. --- and will get zero until the book starts to sell. So understandably, a "real" publisher (one which charges the author no money at all, ever, not one penny) will be reticent to take on a newbie novelist unless they're reasonably confident they'll make back their investment.
Now I want ALL here to understand that the publishing field has of course changed radically in just a few years. Big publishers like Random House used to own their own presses. That's mostly a thing of the past. Nowadays, most every publisher, small and large, uses specialty print companies -- most US print firms are in the rural southeast -- former mining people provide good skilled employees -- and these places are POD (print on demand) regardless of whether the order is 40 copies or 40,000.
This removes the burden of overhead from small indie publishers too. They can take on many more new writers than before, because they don't have the huge typesetting costs of older times. They use CreateSpace or other pro software tools to set up a book electronically at very modest cost, and it can be then offered on Amazon easily.
So there are lots more small independent and mostly genre (fantasy, SF, romance, mystery, etc) publishers who are interested in newbie novelists, since if they're careful and not too over-eager, can build up a nice group of writers who are paid small but fair royalties. So everyone wins.
My point being: If you're a newbie novelist, take a while and work your way thru the list of the many new small publishing houses first. Check the publisher's list on the excellent (and not for profit) "Preditors and Editors" -- they label the "vanity" (author pays) so you'll know up front, or the outright scam publishers so you can avoid them -- and see what might happen.
Then, if you've exhausted the list and still get a TBNT, you can at least venture into self publishing without ever wondering "What if?" since you've explored that avenue.
Latest news--- My first book "Blood Spiral" is now released on Amazon in both trade paperback & Kindle, and received a very nice review on this forum -- you can check it out in the "official" review listings.
Book 2, "Blood Storm" was recently released as well, and a review of it is pending here.
Book 3, "Blood Vengeance" will be released soon.
You can PM me for my website info where I have all the latest on my books. And if I can answer any general questions here in this thread about non-self publishing, I'll be happy to. Questions about my specific books for sale are more correctly answered off-line via PM or email.
Thanks.
Getting signed onto a non-subsidy publisher (where I pay zero) isn't a choice -- it resulted in maybe 3 months of continual query sending, many many query letters, many "first 3 chapters" submitted, and of course, many TBNTs (thanks but no thanks). But I did luck out and was offered a 3-book contract, pretty keen for a fledgling novelist.
When I say "fledgling" I mean that yeah, I've been writing and making small sales here and there all my life, largest was a sale to a national mag for $1000 but most far smaller, plus the standard $25 or so for writing movie & book reviews for a newspaper, pocket change mostly. But placing a novel is a big difference.
Why? Well, if you sell a short story, for example, the publisher pays you maybe $50 and your story is only one of 20 in the printing. So they are only taking a 1/20th chance. But a novel is a whole different ballgame. I means that the publisher will likely spend $1000 or more putting your book together -- editing, print layout, cover art costs, etc. --- and will get zero until the book starts to sell. So understandably, a "real" publisher (one which charges the author no money at all, ever, not one penny) will be reticent to take on a newbie novelist unless they're reasonably confident they'll make back their investment.
Now I want ALL here to understand that the publishing field has of course changed radically in just a few years. Big publishers like Random House used to own their own presses. That's mostly a thing of the past. Nowadays, most every publisher, small and large, uses specialty print companies -- most US print firms are in the rural southeast -- former mining people provide good skilled employees -- and these places are POD (print on demand) regardless of whether the order is 40 copies or 40,000.
This removes the burden of overhead from small indie publishers too. They can take on many more new writers than before, because they don't have the huge typesetting costs of older times. They use CreateSpace or other pro software tools to set up a book electronically at very modest cost, and it can be then offered on Amazon easily.
So there are lots more small independent and mostly genre (fantasy, SF, romance, mystery, etc) publishers who are interested in newbie novelists, since if they're careful and not too over-eager, can build up a nice group of writers who are paid small but fair royalties. So everyone wins.
My point being: If you're a newbie novelist, take a while and work your way thru the list of the many new small publishing houses first. Check the publisher's list on the excellent (and not for profit) "Preditors and Editors" -- they label the "vanity" (author pays) so you'll know up front, or the outright scam publishers so you can avoid them -- and see what might happen.
Then, if you've exhausted the list and still get a TBNT, you can at least venture into self publishing without ever wondering "What if?" since you've explored that avenue.
Latest news--- My first book "Blood Spiral" is now released on Amazon in both trade paperback & Kindle, and received a very nice review on this forum -- you can check it out in the "official" review listings.
Book 2, "Blood Storm" was recently released as well, and a review of it is pending here.
Book 3, "Blood Vengeance" will be released soon.
You can PM me for my website info where I have all the latest on my books. And if I can answer any general questions here in this thread about non-self publishing, I'll be happy to. Questions about my specific books for sale are more correctly answered off-line via PM or email.
Thanks.
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
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cari_elizabeth
- Posts: 5
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Thanks for writing this article and for all the great feedback you gave everyone, Moderntimes. I'm hoping to get my work out there someday and all of this information was helpful to me.
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moderntimes
- Posts: 2249
- Joined: 15 Mar 2014, 13:03
- Favorite Book: Ulysses by James Joyce
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Thanks. As I've said before, it's fine if folks want to self publish. But I think that too many new writers automatically assume that their book might not be commercially viable and don't even try to crack the market.
Which is why I recommend they at least give it a shot first, and then go to self publishing if the pro route doesn't pan out. All it costs is a bit of time, generating queries and submitting them, as the vast amount of publishers accept electronic queries now.
I do however strongly urge that these submitters check out the publisher prospects on the very fine and totally unbiased website "preditors and editors" -- they have a huge list of publishers, and they warn of scams and unreliable firms, and clearly state the ones which are "legit" subsidy (vanity) publishers. They list the contact info, the generes the publishers are looking for, and most any other info needed.
It might take a prospective writer a month to go thru that list. And then, if there aren't any hits, go ahead and self publish.
I can tell you all that it's a lot nicer if someone else pays for the cover art, the editing, the proofreading, the binding, and so on. Now my small publisher is not financially set to have a lot of advertising and so the actual results of this professional publishing hasn't netted me a lot of sales beyond what might also be done via a self published book.
However, I paid zero, nada, zip, not once cent. And my publisher is now engaging in a partnership with a commercial publicity firm to boost the books in their list. This could quickly result in actual bookstore placement.
And I can tell you from personal experience -- there's nothing better than seeing your book on a store shelf for sale! (okay, maybe it's better if the publisher sends you a $12 million advance, but neither of us are Hillary Clinton, either, ha ha)
And the war stories of a publisher bullying an author? They just aren't true. Or, at least, I've yet to hear a single legit story posted here. One author did tell about a "vanity" publisher who tried to scam them out of money, but hey, that's why they're called vanity publishers. And also why referring to the preditors and editors site is a good idea -- they've got all the scam houses listed.
It's the author's choice whether to self publish. All I'm saying is that you've got zero reason to at least give the professional houses a try first. You never know. A legit major house could think "This is the one we're looking for" and offer you a bunch of advance money. It happens.
Which is why I recommend they at least give it a shot first, and then go to self publishing if the pro route doesn't pan out. All it costs is a bit of time, generating queries and submitting them, as the vast amount of publishers accept electronic queries now.
I do however strongly urge that these submitters check out the publisher prospects on the very fine and totally unbiased website "preditors and editors" -- they have a huge list of publishers, and they warn of scams and unreliable firms, and clearly state the ones which are "legit" subsidy (vanity) publishers. They list the contact info, the generes the publishers are looking for, and most any other info needed.
It might take a prospective writer a month to go thru that list. And then, if there aren't any hits, go ahead and self publish.
I can tell you all that it's a lot nicer if someone else pays for the cover art, the editing, the proofreading, the binding, and so on. Now my small publisher is not financially set to have a lot of advertising and so the actual results of this professional publishing hasn't netted me a lot of sales beyond what might also be done via a self published book.
However, I paid zero, nada, zip, not once cent. And my publisher is now engaging in a partnership with a commercial publicity firm to boost the books in their list. This could quickly result in actual bookstore placement.
And I can tell you from personal experience -- there's nothing better than seeing your book on a store shelf for sale! (okay, maybe it's better if the publisher sends you a $12 million advance, but neither of us are Hillary Clinton, either, ha ha)
And the war stories of a publisher bullying an author? They just aren't true. Or, at least, I've yet to hear a single legit story posted here. One author did tell about a "vanity" publisher who tried to scam them out of money, but hey, that's why they're called vanity publishers. And also why referring to the preditors and editors site is a good idea -- they've got all the scam houses listed.
It's the author's choice whether to self publish. All I'm saying is that you've got zero reason to at least give the professional houses a try first. You never know. A legit major house could think "This is the one we're looking for" and offer you a bunch of advance money. It happens.
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
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Shelle
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Thank you! I feel like I learned more reading this thread than when I've read entire books on getting published! Congrats to you!
Also, thanks for being so encouraging to other writers!
Also, thanks for being so encouraging to other writers!
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TrishaAnn92
- Previous Member of the Month
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Congratulations!
This is very informative especially for those that wish to go the traditional route. I am still working on my first novel (in the editing/rewriting stages now) and intend on finding a publisher that will take it. Otherwise I will self publish.
This is very informative especially for those that wish to go the traditional route. I am still working on my first novel (in the editing/rewriting stages now) and intend on finding a publisher that will take it. Otherwise I will self publish.
Latest Review: Superhighway by Alex Fayman
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moderntimes
- Posts: 2249
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Understand, I'm not saying that self publishing is a bad thing.
All I'm saying is that it's maybe a good idea to first try the conventional route and you never know. Then if you can't place your novel via that method, sure, maybe self publish.
And I'm trying to also debunk the idea which I have NEVER found to be true, that publishers push around the writer. I've written for local slick monthly mags, major daily newspapers (Kansas City Star, El Paso Times, etc -- REAL newspapers) and occasionally, major national mags when I got lucky about the sale.
In ALL cases, the only editing changes I received were of 2 aspects -- 1- mechanical errors, typos and such, and 2- recommendations from the editor that I might want to revise a particular paragraph or whatever, to make it better. In all these, aside from fixing real mechanical errors, the editors have never required any other change.
Oh yeah, one time, in an article about a car repair shop, I was asked that I not name the shot because the shop was a scam and the magazine hadn't been able to get their legal guy to check out the specifics of my "expose" article. A month later the shop was named because the legal folks had vetted my investigative work.
Regardless, I'm not bragging. I'm a lower level writer -- I tried to find a major publisher -- Doubleday, etc -- but I was unable to find a venue. Then I found a "boutique" publisher -- a small mostly genre publisher -- fantasy, romance, mystery, etc -- and they picked up not only only my new novel but the first 2 earlier books.
Let's face it -- my publisher is a small house and they don't have the publicity so my sales are modest. What I want to emphasize is that a new writer may find a nice venue to place a novel, and the publisher will pay 100% of the costs, fix errors, give you a nice cover art, and set you up with a paperback book and ebook, via Amazon, and you pay zero.
So hey, give it a try first. And please also, check any pending publisher with the great website "preditors and editors" because they've got scam publishers listed and a nice list of all possible routes for conventional publishing.
Ya never know.
All I'm saying is that it's maybe a good idea to first try the conventional route and you never know. Then if you can't place your novel via that method, sure, maybe self publish.
And I'm trying to also debunk the idea which I have NEVER found to be true, that publishers push around the writer. I've written for local slick monthly mags, major daily newspapers (Kansas City Star, El Paso Times, etc -- REAL newspapers) and occasionally, major national mags when I got lucky about the sale.
In ALL cases, the only editing changes I received were of 2 aspects -- 1- mechanical errors, typos and such, and 2- recommendations from the editor that I might want to revise a particular paragraph or whatever, to make it better. In all these, aside from fixing real mechanical errors, the editors have never required any other change.
Oh yeah, one time, in an article about a car repair shop, I was asked that I not name the shot because the shop was a scam and the magazine hadn't been able to get their legal guy to check out the specifics of my "expose" article. A month later the shop was named because the legal folks had vetted my investigative work.
Regardless, I'm not bragging. I'm a lower level writer -- I tried to find a major publisher -- Doubleday, etc -- but I was unable to find a venue. Then I found a "boutique" publisher -- a small mostly genre publisher -- fantasy, romance, mystery, etc -- and they picked up not only only my new novel but the first 2 earlier books.
Let's face it -- my publisher is a small house and they don't have the publicity so my sales are modest. What I want to emphasize is that a new writer may find a nice venue to place a novel, and the publisher will pay 100% of the costs, fix errors, give you a nice cover art, and set you up with a paperback book and ebook, via Amazon, and you pay zero.
So hey, give it a try first. And please also, check any pending publisher with the great website "preditors and editors" because they've got scam publishers listed and a nice list of all possible routes for conventional publishing.
Ya never know.
"Ineluctable modality of the visible..."
