What would you do if an Author gave you negative advice?

[zeldas_lullaby]

I think that the author who gave that "advice" was an <insert dirty word here>. I mean, she may be right that it's hard to promote your self-published book. (OK, she is right.) But I have to agree that going the "publishing house" route may not work out, either. I know for me, my mom keeps saying, "Find an agent. Find an agent." But I don't want one, and here's why: I don't want to hand over any control, period. Yes, I would LOVE to have a professional editor. I can't argue with that. And editing is a job in and of itself! That aside, if I write something, I want full ownership of it, from the cover design to the title to EVERYTHING. Now, that might not be best for everyone. But I'll tell ya, that woman was rude. You should never give up on your dreams. My dead grandmother was always saying that, and being practical never got anyone anywhere.

[moderntimes]

Well, I don't know your own experience with agents, zelda, whether you may have been jerked around by an inept one or a friend of yours maybe had a bad go. But my own personal experience with an agent was positive.

My agent was supportive and worked with me to find a publisher for my books (she did) and NEVER tried to exert any "control" over my writing. She would make a few suggestions about changing things here and there and for the most part she was right, but the decisions were mine and mine alone. Sadly she had the temerity to die and the agency was closed. Now I'm both looking for a new agent and a new publisher.

But my own personal agenting experience has been positive. What is your own tale of woe regarding an agent? And was this agent a "real" agent -- these don't charge evaluation or registration or reading fees. Legit agents charge not a red cent and 100% of their money is derived from sales.

Let me also tell you this: When you sell your book to a "real" publisher (who actually pays you!) you will be given reasonable control over your book's cover and binding, but these must fall within the general look & feel of the publisher's group of authors in whatever genre you write in (romance, fantasy, mystery, etc). If your book is "mainstream" then you'll have even more control over the cover. But it's always the publisher's final decision, unless your name is Stephen King or similar.

When I was asked about my cover art, I specified "moody and dark and suggestive, not depicting an actual thing or event" in other words, for my mystery, I didn't want a magnifying glass or a "gat" or a gal in peril like an old 40s book. So the publisher went to one of their artists and she took my hints and created a very moody and dark cover, hinting at blood but only surrealistic. It was excellent -- the artist did a terrific job and she and I have since become friends. Now the publisher told me that I had 2 chances to pick the cover design and thankfully the 1st was spot on.

Breaking it to anyone here: If you're just a "regular" human being and not famous, you will have a deciding vote on the cover art but the publisher makes the final decision. That's just how it is.

But believe me: When you get that check in the mail and it says "Pay to the order of..." and there are genuine dollar signs? You'll be very happy.

But tell us your bad agenting experience, please, because newcomers can always learn from what happened to you and avoid the same. That's one of the reasons this forum exists, I think.

Dreams? Well, I would have liked to be an astronaut on the first manned voyage to Mars. That ain't gonna happen, so sometimes you gotta let those dreams side away, when the real world intervenes. Otherwise I guess I should drag my old bod down to the Cape and stand at the gate and wait admission for the rocket?

[zeldas_lullaby]

Well, moderntimes, thank you for asking me for more info. But I actually don't have any bad experiences with agents. It's just that I have a mental condition that makes it impossible for me to trust anyone without always wondering what their hidden agenda is. I can only interact with the "outside world" on my own terms, so to speak. I'm comfortable with some things and not with others, and I... I don't know. I'm determined to make it my way or the highway. Yeah, of course, being an astronaut for most people is a... what's the expression? A pie dream? But I think that any dream that you can take measured goals toward is worth trying out. I have no idea what those steps would be for a voyage to mars!! I guess, honestly, I've been burned, repeatedly, by other people so I have no faith in agents. I am inspired by your good experiences with such, and thank you for sharing them with me! But when I step out of my comfort zone, it almost always ends in collapse. That's why I said that's what's best for me, but not necessarily everyone else, ya know?

Oh, hey, I told my dad about the hostile author at the book signing, and he said, "Hubris! She didn't want anyone's competition." (My dad has an answer for everything!!)

[moderntimes]

Thanks for being so straightforward and outgoing to talk about your problems. If these problems are actually clinical then my best thoughts and wishes for your finding them solved eventually. Working past such clinical difficulties is not an easy thing.

If however your problems are "stylistic" and not actually clinical, such as a fledgling author who's scared to death of criticism, my recommendation is that you simply have to develop a thick writer skin and use that as armor to deflect the slings and arrows.

On that matter, it's essential that you learn to allow criticism of your writing (not sniping or crass comments but constructive criticism) to provide you with the building blocks to growing better as a writer. It's a process that we all have to undergo. And I WILL tell you that a genuine, "real" agent -- a registered agent who accepts zero front money -- will be your friend and coach.

Good luck!

[zeldas_lullaby]

No, it's not that. It's not really about criticism. It's... pretty clinical. I mean, I got some critical feedback from Kirkus and used it to improve my writing. I appreciated their input.

Thank you for the kind words. I see a doctor regularly regarding meds and I live a happy life to my capabilities. I also appreciate your nice thougts about "real" agents. It's food for thought. Maybe I won't write it off. (No pun intended!)

-- 06 Feb 2015, 22:08 --

This is sounding way more depressing than it really is. But that's why I write funny, inspirational fiction--I'm a softy. I believe in good things like happy endings.

[moderntimes]

Again, thanks for your candor.

I can attest personally that agents are fine. Like any other profession there are a few rotten apples but since a "real" agent accepts zero money up front, you can quickly learn if the prospective agent is genuine. My own experience and that with some other writers whom I know is positive, 98% essentially.

Good luck! And keep writing and keep working!

[zeldas_lullaby]

OK! You're nice. I appreciate that.

Yeah, I'll keep up the good work!

You know, I guess it wouldn't kill me to contact a few agents! (Boy, would my mom like you. "Get an agent! Get an agent! Get an agent!")

[moderntimes]

If you do decide to contact an agent, check out some websites around for general ways to write a good query. An agent query is like a job application. You say what you've got and ask for representation.

Depending on the genre of your novel, there are sites with lists of reputable agencies who cover that genre. For example, being a mystery writer, the MWA (Mystery Writers of America) has lists of reputable agents who take mysteries.

Almost all use email nowadays.

If you want some query letter pointers, google "literary query letters" or similar. Or ask me and I'll post some hints here.

And don't hide your light under a bushel, okey dokey?

[zeldas_lullaby]

OK! Thanks for the tips. (I had to look up that expression at the end! HA HA.) I'm leaving town to visit relative through Tuesday, and I might put it on my to-do after that point. (I'll have internet access, but I'll be pretty occupied.) If I have any questions, I think you're the person I'll come to! And don't worry--I've been hard at work on #5 of my series. Last night I designed the cover--that's the fun part!

[Maria_G]

Ignore her!!! Never give up! I know lots of self published authors who are insanely talented. Self publishing is only the beginning to achieving your goal and dream. I am a huge fan of Indie authors and believe that they are rare gems waiting to be discovered. She was obviously having a very bad day, but I don't think I can even make an exception for that! She obviously doesn't love what she does enough which is a shame because being an author is one of the greatest gifts of all. You share a part of your soul with each book you write, and that to me is priceless. I'll say it again, don't ever give up!!

[Braktooth]

I think you have to consider the advice and the source. It might not be what you want to hear, but consider if what she said has any merit. Research it. Do self-published books ever do anything?Have any successful authors used that route? Maybe she's wrong. Maybe she's just having a really bad day. Maybe she wants as little competition as possible. It's hard to say.

I often have a hard time hearing advice, and criticism, which doesn't help when you write. I've learned to give my self some space so that I have the ability to take my emotions out of it, and then try what I've heard/read on its own merit.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty rude. That might have been a time issue. Good luck Himandi.

[moderntimes]

Two issues here. First, the author was very rude and made a thoughtless comment.

Second, regarding self publishing, I highly recommend finding either an agent or publisher and expect to be PAID for your writing efforts. I think that if your writing is good enough, you WILL find a buyer (or a legit agent).

If someone wants to pay money to get a book self published, fine. But I absolutely do think that it's far better that a real publisher be found, if at all possible. Heck, if I can find a publisher for my 2 novels, and I'm in no way a monster writer selling a zillion books, but I did find a publisher who paid me. And they did a fine job, too. So my recommendation is to keep perfecting your writing and keep trying to find a publisher or agent. Then, after exhausting ALL legit avenues, then maybe self publishing, but realize that part of your writing's hard work is working to find a publisher. Difficult? Sure. But believe me, worth it! Getting a check or paypal for a nice chuck of change from a professional publisher for your actual real print sales? To go into a local bookstore and see your book on the shelf for sale? Keen!

[Duende Knocking]

The author in this situation just sounds like a jerk, to be honest.

But that doesn't mean her "advice" is invalid, though she could have said it much more nicely. I have heard (from people working in the industry) that self-publishing can be detrimental to your reputation farther down the line, and that many publishers are unwilling to take on manuscripts from authors who have resorted to self-publishing.

Sure, there are some great self-published books out there, just as there are a lot of terrible books that were accepted by a publisher, but the judgment you'll get self-publishing doesn't necessarily match the reality (publishing is pretty much the same as any other aspect of life). If a big publisher sees that you used CreateSpace or something of the like, they will suspect that a) you were too lazy to look for a publisher, b) you gave up finding a publisher, c) you have something against mainstream publishers, or d) your writing is just terrible. The last is self-explanatory, and the other three might publishers question your willingness to continue to produce and/or work with them if your book is successful. It's all about money when it comes down to it, and if they have any reason to believe that you'll only ever write one book or will jump publishers, they're not going to be as inclined to pick you up.

There are exceptions, of course, and I understand the allure of self-publishing, but the reality is that it can negatively affect your future as a successfully published author (unless you're fine with sticking to self-publishing).

All said and done, that author really was a jerk to you.

[H0LD0Nthere]

My problem with "If they won't publish your book, it isn't any good" is that I've read plenty of really BAD books published by traditional publishing houses. Granted, they were not full of typos ... but they can be weak in premise, lacking in research, packed with stereotypes, predictable plot ...

Granted, this is more true of non-fiction than fiction books I've read. But I have read some pretty disappointing fiction, as well. It makes it hard to believe that the world of publishing is a very efficient quality filter.

So does "it's not really any good" mean it's no better than those rotten books, or just that you didn't proofread it enough?

On a related note, a relative of mine published a nonfiction book a few years ago. He has made a little money off it. Less than $20, though.

But having said all that, thanks for all the advice, Moderntimes. It's nice to hear from someone who's been there.

[zeldas_lullaby]

I too have encountered a volley of officially-published books, from the bookstore, that are terrible. One utilized constant sentence fragments, as in every other sentence. (I think the author intended it to be gimmicky, but it was awful.) One had such a pathetic plot that I couldn't believe it was published. And several were so unoriginal as to offend. And then there were the ones that didn't seem remotely believable in regards to the characters' reactions to common situations.
And I read (or tried to read) a Nora Roberts book once, and it drove me out of my mind. ("I made myself some cocoa, sat down. I called my dog into the room, made him sit. I grabbed the newspaper section, unfolded it." AND! AND! AND! But I digress.)
I know there's no fairness to it--you could have a great non-published author or a terrible published author.
Oh well.