Publisher bullying the writer? Share your story

[moderntimes]

Got your PM. If your comments are related to the general aspects of the forum threads, post 'em in the forum, other comments related to off-topic stuff, email me -- I PM'd you my email and website.

And keep grinding away at the task. We've got quite a few folks here who will say "I'd like to write a novel..." or "Someday I want to write..." but those sorts of statements are what Robert Pirsig, in the great "Zen and the art..." calls "gumption traps" -- they are dead ends.

What I advise newbies is to instead say "I AM a writer!" and then proceed. A few years back I had a blank page (blank Word screen, actually) and now I've got 3 full length novels and a 4th in progress. Write a little every day or at least do something that pertains to your writing -- research, review and editing of what you've already written, etc.

Those little shoemaker elves are all on strike for better wages and working conditions, so we cannot expect them to finish our stories or novels while we're asleep. We gotta do it ourselves, unfortunately. But the result is that we don't have to list the elves as co-authors either. Their names are too hard to spell anyway.

[TrishaAnn92]

Those little shoemaker elves are all on strike for better wages and working conditions, so we cannot expect them to finish our stories or novels while we're asleep. We gotta do it ourselves, unfortunately. But the result is that we don't have to list the elves as co-authors either. Their names are too hard to spell anyway.

No elves in my house. I have started thinking in the mind set of "I am a writer" I must say it is invigorating. I have been punching out around 2 thousand words a day during my children's nap times and then after they fall asleep for the night. So I would say I am rolling full steam ahead right now. My plan as of right now is to finish the novel to the end since I am doing the NanoWriMo and I believe it is a good challenge to try and achieve and then spend next month editing and polishing it.

[Richard Falken]

I have read of such things as bully publishers in Spanish forums. People in those threads usually complained about lack of transparency regarding sales and explained why they thought the publisher was taking a bigger cut than agreed, using fraudulent means.

Another regular complaint I hear is against co-editor publishers. Some seem to be clean, some seem to be as fishy as a politician in campaing. However, most of the times, the "frauds" are not so, just contracts the author signed without reading them at all, and having unrealistic expectations.

For example, I once read about an author who entered into a co-edition deal and funded 50% of the publishing process. After a year or so, he was notified that the deal was over and that unsold books were going to be destroyed unless he bought them up (for nearly the other 50% of the publishing costs). For the co-publisher, it was a golden deal, because it got to sell some books and put the expenses on the author (who had to pay for not having the books destroyed). For the author, it was a backstabbing. However, if the author had taken the time to read the contract and had known there was no way to sell the whole stock, he would had known the deal was not profitable.

Fact is that some publishers don't try to make their living out of selling books to readers, they try to make a living selling services to authors. And if you fool around, you can get burnt. I have yet to be burnt myself in one of these stories, though.

[moderntimes]

Thanks for the feedback, Richard. There are indeed some scam publishers and they make it hard for both writers and legit publishers.

And they prey on unsuspecting writers. Many newbie writers are delighted to find that "wow" their book is so great that a publisher has accepted it. But then, the publisher says "Oh, of course, we received so many that there are associated costs, and we hope that a partnership can be reached" which is all BS.

All I can say is beware, and be very cautious about ANY publisher who asks for money. I've been a paid writer (not a lot, but I have been paid real money for my writing most of my life - most I made was one sale to a national mag for $1000) and I've been approached by scam artists and I tell 'em to go suck.

Best I can recommend is the site "preditors and editors" which has a list of fraudulent publishers or other similar sites. It's like any other scam -- home roofing or home siding or auto repair or whatever -- if it sounds too good, your antennae should go up. A little research also helps. Do your due diligence and find out what is typical for a new author -- what to expect.

As a longtime writer but a very new novelist, I knew full well that getting a novel accepted is a big step forward. A short story is one thing -- a publisher of an anthology with maybe 30 stories has to only take 1/30th of the chance for one author and pay out $30 and knows that the bulk of the other stories will cover costs and bring a small profit. But for a novel, the publisher is investing in only one person, you, and absorbs the full cost of publishing, including editing, setup, cover art, etc with no pay from the author.

Now maybe the newbie author won't get an advance, or maybe just a token advance of $25 as a gesture, the royalties to be the only author income. And for those who don't know, royalties are variable depending. A new writer is unlikely to be picked up by, say, Random House and paid a huge advance (like Hillary Clinton) or paid big royalties. Instead, a newbie author usually signs with a small publisher who's taking a chance, and therefore the cut is smaller. That's to be expected, since the publisher is also footing 100% of the bill. The advance may be zero, or a token, or maybe $500 or $1000 or similar. Royalties? Generally, expect to receive 5% to 10% for print copy sales, and about 30% to 40% on e-book sales. Expect to receive your payments every 60 or 90 days.

Now Richard uses the term "co-publisher" -- the standard term is "subsidy publisher" -- this means that the author pays a certain part of the publishing up front. This is different from "vanity publishers" where the author pays all costs. Now there are legit subsidy and vanity publishers out there -- you have to work hard to find them, and you have to be very careful, but they do exist. There are quite a few of these who will do a fine job for a new writer, and who is willing to pay to be published. They will be fair and do a good job. How much? Maybe $1000 and this will just be how the business works.

Unfortunately, for every legit subsidy or vanity publisher, there are maybe 20 scam operations.

First of all, if you are offered a publishing deal, READ the contract and if necessary, have it reviewed by an attorney.

Now I got lucky. I sent out queries to legit small genre publishers (genre: mystery, fantasy, romance, etc) because I write private detective thrillers. I got LOTS of TBNTs (thanks but no thanks) and I just went down the list, sending a few email queries each day.

Usually, depending on the publisher website info, you'll be asked to send a query letter and maybe 1-3 chapters. On occasion, I was asked to send more. Then another TBNT but after the request for more chapters, the editor usually sends a nice personal rejection and may even offer suggestions. If this happens, be sure that you analyze your book in light of the recommendations. They're coming from a professional editor who's trying to help.

Well, eventually I found a publisher who liked my new 3rd novel (my query mentioned the first 2 books too) and the first pass reviewer said "looks good, send us the full novel" so I did, this was tentatively accepted and kicked upstairs to the CEO and EIC. She emailed me an acceptance! And then she said, "You said you've got 2 prior novels in the series? Send me both asap" and lo and behold, I was presented with a very nice 3-book contract! (which I had evaluated by an attorney pal) and I signed. Now book 1 is out and selling, books 2 and 3 are soon to be published, and I'm working on the 4th -- the contract includes a "first right of refusal" for that new book when finished.

Such a thing is typical for a newbie novelist. Don't expect a $5 million advance from Random House. Expect instead an arduous process of working thru all the legit publishers and finally finding one who accepts your book. Expect a small advance (if any) and a percent royalty similar to the ranges I listed above. And most important, DO NOT PAY ONE CENT! Legit publishers NEVER charge the author, even a new author and even a small independent publisher.

And as Richard correctly warns, be wary of scams.

[5ngela]

Bully will always keep bullying. Just move on.

[Khaya]

Wow, a lot of great information here. Thanks for creating this discussion moderntimes! I'm currently working on a novel and I'm at about 17,000 words. I want to publish the traditional route, but was a little scared from of the bad, shaky reputation it seemed to have. I'm going to save the Preditors and Editors site you shared.