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And by that, I want to know how it should be done. No, why. Let's not get formulaic

I've started reviewing a series of short stories from here, and it's interesting seeing how they are put together.

Contrast that with a novel, do we need to see a fully 3d world (if relevant, of course), and things that aren't relevant, adding to the depth? How much does the reader invest in the totality of the 3d-ness? Where does fluff get in the way?

Is this an individual reader perspective?!! If so, does this then run down the lines of what is fed to the masses?

Is it a genre thing?

There's threads on here saying that they love/hate descriptive stuff, there's lots more, and a lot of the time it seems to process an individual pov.

Is there a purpose within the technical mechanics of a novel?

The principal purpose of a novel is of course to tell a story. If the story is augmented by adding the "fluff" or extra information that the author uses to fill out the story, and if such strengthens the story, then of course it's legit. Otherwise it's padding.

How to tell the difference? Hopefully, as a novelist you will gradually learn what to put in and what to leave out. If you don't do this, then when you sell your novel, your editor will help you with those tasks.

There is no hard and fast rule as to what constitutes padding and what is substantive. It's the skill of the author that decides this.

A novel is a short story on steroids. A word becomes a paragraph; a paragraph, a chapter; and a chapter, an internal book. Conversely, you may think of a novel as an expansion of a short story. Some of the great novels of history could have been reduced to a short story, but not without sacrificing much of the shading, character development, and plot structure which elevates a short story to something more of what I might call "magnificence". Many novelists have written short stories. The challenge, as I see it is to compress a lot of story into a small package when writing a short story. This can make quality short story writing just as difficult to accomplish as taking on the project of a novel.

Short stories are totally unlike novels. I've written both and the process is, at least as I observe, quite different. I smiled when I saw the "steroid" statement but I think it's quite untrue. You really cannot pump up a short story to make it a novel, nor can you trim down a novel into a short story.

Short stories have one arc, whereas novels have three major arcs and many smaller sub-arcs beneath. Novels also contain different types of arcs -- character arcs, plot arcs, and underlying thematic arcs. Novelettes and novellas may also contain several arcs but the concept of the short story is contained within one thematic arc, to which the characters, action, and narrative belongs.

When I'm writing a short story I use a very different process of storytelling from when I'm writing a novel. At least that's how I see it. Others who have written both may have different thoughts on this.

I explored a similar question, in the lead-up to a panel discussion on the subject of, "Is the novel dead?" The thrust of the affirmative argument was that the changes that are revolutionizing communication in the print industry is causing huge disruption in book publishing, and other long-form story-telling, like the opera and symphony.

The answer to whether the novel is dead returned to your central question -- why do we write novels?

For me, the novel is a format that allows enough space to tell a big story, lay out full characters and explore big questions. Writing something that's 5,000 words doesn't give me enough room. 80,000 or 100,000 may be about 75,000 words too many for some of my readers, but I write first of all to empty my head of these stories, characters and questions.

Why do I read novels is an entirely different question. I want to immerse myself completely in a vision that a skilled writer is laying out for me. I want that satisfaction that comes from escaping so completely that once the final page is turned, I feel like I have gained something, without having ever left my chair.

I'd say that the demise of the novel has been greatly exaggerated. Look at the popularity of the Potter books with kids. These kids will grow up to look for adult fiction in novel length.

Opera? I attend the opera all the time, and the crowd is a sellout mostly. It's thriving here in Houston.

@modern times: please describe the arcs of a novel! The three main ones, the sub arcs, and how does that fit in with likes of cloud atlas, or a simple targetted novel, for example a basic mystery or fantasy novel?

You've been especially kind in topic responses and it is much appreciated!

Chris

A novel is a way to escape, for author and reader. A way to create or reinvent, to change or rectify, to be honest or devious, good or evil. A way to explore fantasy and real life. A way to reveal deep secrets and desires without actually admitting to them.

It probably varies from one person to the next, but I think it's good technique when you can describe a scene/person/etc., with a few vivid words that just put the reader there. I mean, why go on and on and on when you can hone in on it, create an image, and then get back to the plot/dialogue/storyline? Like I said, it's a personal thing, but I hate description--as a reader! I get intimidated by books that describe and describe. I don't know why! Maybe it's my focus problems. My dad says we live in a world of shortened attention spans, thanks to MTV. HA HA.

Are we discussing "fluff" as being needless filler that pads your word count? As a writer, my answer to that is--flesh out the story. Dig deeper. "Fluff" is never the answer, unless the question is, "What's a good name for a kitten?"

Actually, my dad's always going around quoting someone who said, "The secret to good writing is to leave out the parts that people don't want to read--that they'd skip." Of course, this is the same man who told me to invest in Ford stock several years ago. Oh well.

For me, the novel is a format that allows enough space to tell a big story, lay out full characters and explore big questions. Writing something that's 5,000 words doesn't give me enough room. 80,000 or 100,000 may be about 75,000 words too many for some of my readers, but I write first of all to empty my head of these stories, characters and questions.???

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GuL