Publisher bullying the writer? Share your story

[moderntimes]

There's a certain underlying theme among some here which leans toward self-publishing and occasionally features rants about how publishers bully a writer.

Now I've got no problems with those who want to self publish. Go for it. But there's a general complaint extant about how writers are forced into bad contracts, are shoved around by publishers, and essentially turn over their freedom as a writer to these grabby publishers, and this is why self publishing is the correct route.

I can state unequivocally that for my personal experience, the concept of a bullying publisher is simply untrue. This July I signed a 3-book contract with a small, mostly genre conventional publisher (my novels are modern American private eye). By "conventional" I mean that the author pays zero and the publisher picks up 100% of the tab for editing, revisions, proofreading, cover artwork, setup, and printing as well as Kindle e-book release.

I'm essentially a writing nobody. I've written short stories, articles, essays, book & movie reviews, and have been paid very modestly for such. But as a novelist, zero, zip, nada. And for a publisher to offer me a full contract means that they were willing to take a chance on me to the tune of several thousand bucks, and per my fairly standard contract (the contract involves things like advance, royalties, and re-assigning my copyright to the publisher for the period of the contract, generally 3-4 years). My contract also includes first right of refusal for my 4th (in progress) novel.

I had my contract reviewed by an attorney pal, and all is above board and quite generous to someone who's essentially an unknown. My 1st book is now out and being advertised on Amazon, both trade paperback and Kindle, the next 2 novels soon to follow. Now as part of my contract I must help promote the book by keeping my website updated, keeping a Facebook & Twitter presence, and so on. But in no case am I obligated to spend one red cent.

The publisher has also treated me very nicely. Their editors sent me a questionnaire about what sort of cover art I wanted, and I had the option to effect changes in that artwork (I didn't, it was excellent) and I've worked with the text review and editors to brush up my text and get it into first class shape. I made the very silly mistake of sending a bunch of last minute changes to my 1st book and this PO'd the editors, as the work was rushed due to my late changes. I was asked to not do this again please, but to ensure that my "final" changes were actually final. And if I required more changes after approving the galley proofs, the cost would come out of my upcoming royalties. So I knuckled down and made sure that the next 2 novels were well-proofread before I approved them. This is the ONLY "problem" I've had with my publisher and it was all my doing.

So bullying? This has not happened, period. Nor has any of the other rumored bad treatment I've seen hinted at on this forum.

So I'm making two points here: 1) At least for me, the rumors of bad publishing behavior are untrue. 2) I'm asking others here to PLEASE tell me their stories about how THEY were badly treated by a publisher. And no rumors, or "I've heard this is how they treat writers..." and so on. I'm asking for FIRST PERSON accounts of bad publisher experiences.

And yeah, I've had plenty of rejections from publishers. That's just not grounds for calling a foul. A publisher has the right to reject a submission. I'm asking for stories about how YOU were badly treated by a mean old publisher. Okay? Thanks in advance for your horror stories.

[CzechTigg]

A very informative and encouraging OP. Thanks

[moderntimes]

Thanks. I just want to let new writers know that this idea that publishers bully authors is a false concept, insofar as I personally can say.

I have asked others here, those who have claimed that conventional publishers are rude and nasty to writers, to tell their own personal experience, and thus far ZERO replies. So thus far it's only rumor. If there are actual stories of this, I've yet to see them detailed here.

Understand, I'm NOT against self publishing. But to run toward that venue only because you think that publishers bully new writers is simply wrong. My suggestions are to first try to place your book with a conventional publisher. You DO have editorial input. You DO have influence over cover art. You DO work as a partner to get the book published. And you do NOT pay one penny.

Then, if you're unable to find a conventional publisher who pays all the costs and pays you fair royalties, then self publish by all means. This is the point I'm trying to make here.

[CzechTigg]

More than one way to make an omelette.

Which of your three books was the best experience overall?

[moderntimes]

By far the last book. We learn by doing. My first book had lots of last minute changes which really PO'd the senior editor, as I said. I've spoken (email really) with a couple of fairly well known authors with whom I've been lucky to have correspondence. They both told me that I had completely overstepped the general unwritten rules and I was lucky that the publisher accepted these last minute changes or didn't deduct that final edit cost from my upcoming royalties.

But my 1st novel was also the least well written, and after writing and editing the other 2, I had then gone back and "fixed" a lot of things which really didn't need to be changed at all. By the time I had finished my 3rd novel the writing was greatly improved and very few changes were needed.

My worst trait is use of non-accepted compound words, like "treeline" or "bluejeans" and so on. These normally are either 2 words or hyphenated, and I pushed the edge of the envelope and wrote them as a single word. So I was asked if I might go thru my text with the MS-Word spellcheck (spell-check or spell check, ha ha) and adjust these. I said fine, and fixed about 95% of them, the others I stuck with as is my "right" as a author. The editors said okay and that was it.

This back and forth thing is typical, and is the exact same sort of dialogue which I experienced with my short stories and magazine articles in the past. In the vast majority of cases, the editors make very good recommendations and catch lots of errors. And in some small percent of cases, the author sticks with the stuff originally submitted.

Point is, at NO time was I required to alter anything. Not one single word. I was told in advance that anything potentially libelous or illegal would not be allowed, regardless. For example, if I quote modern song lyrics or lines from a copyright book, I'd need permission. Or if I spoke badly of a real restaurant, "Jack's tavern sold horrible burgers and eating there was a chance you took." and if Jack's was a real place, look for a lawsuit.

So professional editors watch for this and you're required to change it. This I already knew and therefore had no potentially litigious statements in my books. When I want a "bad" restaurant or bar, I just make up a fictional one. It's however okay to mention real places in a non-bad way.

Summarizing, my 3rd book went the smoothest, needed far less editing than the other two. And you must understand that I was the guilty one who put the editors thru a needless bunch of very late and unnecessary work. I was told this in no uncertain terms by two established professional authors (writers who actually make a living on their writing).

[CzechTigg]

Hmm. I don't know if professional authors can be quite so critical of you when you have yet to learn the ropes, but if that's your own humble opinion then fair play. I would like to think editors are there for you to learn what NOT to do as much as anything.
I can be a little unhappy with laws and being open to being sued, and this is coming from a law graduate. But I guess some jobs are all about catching out the unwary and its best not to be one of their targets.

[moderntimes]

Well, I asked them for their straight opinion and they gave it unvarnished. I realized up front that I was going a bit overboard but these writers told me that I was actually over the line by quite a bit, and had pushed the publisher into a corner and the pub was good to accept all my changes (over 200 of them!, eek).

Writing non-litigious copy is what all of us need to do. In my first novel for example, I very early had 4 stanzas of a popular rock song. Later I realized that this was not allowed unless I got permission from ASCAP and so I just paraphrased the lyrics instead, which is fine. Here's the final passage:

Steely Dan was on the classic rock station, playing Do It Again. I turned up the volume and helped Donald Fagen sing a few bars. We went on about how the wild one brings me sorrow and my wheel kept turning round and round. I didn’t get all the words right, but it was only a song, no moral to learn, no object lesson to teach. And real life is never about rock lyrics anyway.

[TrishaAnn92]

I actually had a rather good experience the one time I looked into publishing a story. I was in tenth grade I believe. It was going to cost around 2 grand to get it published but the publisher was more than willing to work with us and make whatever I wanted happen. Now maybe it's because I was young or maybe he was just a really nice guy.

I didn't go through with it per my dad's discomfort over his young daughter publishing. And I think worried about not making the money back. But it was over all a good experience. My problem now is going about how to find the right publisher and what not when and if I am ready to publish.

[moderntimes]

Two thousand bucks? Lemme tell you. It normally costs about $1000 to "vanity" publish an entire novel! This includes editing and proofreading, cover art, binding, all the costs. If the author pays it all, of course.

There are plenty of legitimate subsidy ("vanity") publishers and there are some scams. I think you got hooked up to a scam artist. Others here may think otherwise.

It's not too expensive these days however to self-publish a book. The physical setup for an actual print version is the most expensive. And there are plenty of low cost artwork panels which the author can use, maybe $25 for choosing from an already-created cover to which you add the text. And so on.

Same if you write maybe a dozen short stories and want to self-publish them in a volume. Go for it.

Myself, I took the professional route, and worked for a couple months to find a "real" publisher for my private eye novels -- that is, a publisher who pays ME instead of my paying them. And thus far, one of the novels is now out in print and the next 2 are soon to follow, and in all cases the publisher has been absolutely fair and straight with me, in complete compliance with the contract -- which pays real money with advances and royalties.

Here's what I recommend to newbie writers: 1- make sure your story or novel is as fine as you can make it. 2- try to sell it to a commercial marketplace, where YOU are paid and not the other way around. 3- if you're unable to sell the piece, then consider self-publishing or subsidy publishing (self means you do all the work yourself or most of it -- layout, cover art selection, print setup, etc. whereas subsidy is that you pay a pro publisher to do all the setup and print for you, for a fee, and then if the book sells, you and the publisher split royalties in accordance with a contracted percent.

Good luck with your writing!

[TrishaAnn92]

Yeah he may have been, like I said I was only in tenth grade but I'm fairly certain that is why my dad backed out of doing it. He never gave me a good reason, which parents don't really have to of course, especially regarding that much money.

I have been considering self publishing through Amazon for my first novel just to see the response it receives first. I have several ideas in line that I want to write. And the support to do it. One of my friends is an author in the romance world and has offered her help as a critique partner and any other ways she can help.

Thank you! I know I read one of your novels but I look forward to reading your others!

[moderntimes]

Well, thanks.

Having a friend who can give you strong feedback is terrific. I have a pal who read my 3rd novel and gave me some plot hints where I'd left a couple of holes (you can't do that in a mystery) and I paid him back by reading and critiquing his own novel. So this is an excellent assist.

Just be your own voice and don't let you instincts be swayed unless you get genuinely accurate advice.

Self publishing is fine for those who wish to. I just went the other direction and thankfully it paid off, getting signed to a 3-book contract in July.

Regardless, the author's work is critical. No publisher is going to "fix" a bad book, no editor is going to change bad writing into good. The author is responsible totally for the outcome. The professional publisher will only help you put together a more professional product but will not create something which is not there.

Point of this thread is to let newbie writers know that the sob stories of big bad publishers shoving the little author around are just mostly fantasy. I'm a nobody and I've been treated with respect and fairness and my contract is a nice one for a new author (I had a pal check around and she's a literary attorney and she said the contract is fine, fair royalties and such). I've been treated well, too. No hassles, no shoving, no overbearing editors at all. What I wrote got published -- all they did was find typos and such.

But self publishing is a lot easier these days with the Amazon self-pub software and most new writers can put together a decent book for print without too much trouble. They can also pay on a per-need basis for advice and assistance. A good deal, really.

[moderntimes]

Well, thanks.

Having a friend who can give you strong feedback is terrific. I have a pal who read my 3rd novel and gave me some plot hints where I'd left a couple of holes (you can't do that in a mystery) and I paid him back by reading and critiquing his own novel. So this is an excellent assist.

Just be your own voice and don't let you instincts be swayed unless you get genuinely accurate advice.

Self publishing is fine for those who wish to. I just went the other direction and thankfully it paid off, getting signed to a 3-book contract in July.

Regardless, the author's work is critical. No publisher is going to "fix" a bad book, no editor is going to change bad writing into good. The author is responsible totally for the outcome. The professional publisher will only help you put together a more professional product but will not create something which is not there.

Point of this thread is to let newbie writers know that the sob stories of big bad publishers shoving the little author around are just mostly fantasy. I'm a nobody and I've been treated with respect and fairness and my contract is a nice one for a new author (I had a pal check around and she's a literary attorney and she said the contract is fine, fair royalties and such). I've been treated well, too. No hassles, no shoving, no overbearing editors at all. What I wrote got published -- all they did was find typos and such.

But self publishing is a lot easier these days with the Amazon self-pub software and most new writers can put together a decent book for print without too much trouble. They can also pay on a per-need basis for advice and assistance. A good deal, really.

[TrishaAnn92]

Well, thanks.

Having a friend who can give you strong feedback is terrific. I have a pal who read my 3rd novel and gave me some plot hints where I'd left a couple of holes (you can't do that in a mystery) and I paid him back by reading and critiquing his own novel. So this is an excellent assist.

Just be your own voice and don't let you instincts be swayed unless you get genuinely accurate advice.

Self publishing is fine for those who wish to. I just went the other direction and thankfully it paid off, getting signed to a 3-book contract in July.

Regardless, the author's work is critical. No publisher is going to "fix" a bad book, no editor is going to change bad writing into good. The author is responsible totally for the outcome. The professional publisher will only help you put together a more professional product but will not create something which is not there.

Point of this thread is to let newbie writers know that the sob stories of big bad publishers shoving the little author around are just mostly fantasy. I'm a nobody and I've been treated with respect and fairness and my contract is a nice one for a new author (I had a pal check around and she's a literary attorney and she said the contract is fine, fair royalties and such). I've been treated well, too. No hassles, no shoving, no overbearing editors at all. What I wrote got published -- all they did was find typos and such.

But self publishing is a lot easier these days with the Amazon self-pub software and most new writers can put together a decent book for print without too much trouble. They can also pay on a per-need basis for advice and assistance. A good deal, really.

I would like to go through a publisher, my concern is finding a good one that will work with me. I'm not too concerned as of yet, since I am still in the very early stages of my book, just reached 4,100 words! Once I get further along I may start doing more research to see what my better option to start out would be. It works for my friend and I she sends me among others ARCs to read and critique and she was thrilled when I told her I was diving into the writing pool.

Being a newbie writer I think knowing that publishers are good, or at least the majority of them anyways. It gives myself and I'm sure would give others the confidence to not be put off my going through a publisher to get their work out there.

[moderntimes]

Let me highly recommend the non-fee and non-commercial site "preditors and editors" -- it's an excellent source. Gives warnings about scam publishers, give advice, many things to help new writers.

One of their listings is a long and comprehensive list of book publishers. It describes the scam publishers, publishers who cheat the writers, those who offer bad contracts, and so on. And the list gives names and links of most any publisher in business, and comments, good and bad, on most of them. You can look down the list and go to various publisher's sites and see which ones publish fantasy, and so on.

Some major publishers of course only work through agencies and therefore don't accept direct submissions from authors. So you just click them off the list. Then you send out maybe a dozen queries a day -- each publisher who accepts non-agented authors will give you the format of query and so on.

Of course, and this is essential, your book MUST be finished and polished and carefully proofread before you begin submitting. Finish the book first, then go shopping.

PM me for my email and I'll give you more specifics.

[TrishaAnn92]

Okay I will have to check out the site. That is my goal, finish now. Work on proofreading and editing and then do the rest. I am taking it in baby steps.
I am PMing you now.