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Since it came down to it, Abnegation really was the best choice for a ruling faction, though I still think each faction should have been given a spot to balance it out. Abnegation is selfless, so out of the five they had more of a positive implication and would be less rash when making city decisions.

I feel any institution run by a single faction, no matter their ideals, will act in the best interest of that faction. Selflessness might be a quality sought out in leaders, but that excludes the possibility of unity.

Scott wrote: ↑03 Jun 2014, 13:21 Do you agree with her father’s statement that “valuing knowledge above all else results in a lust for power, and that leads men into dark and empty places” (p. 35)? Why or why not?

I do not agree with the statement, because some mad scientists only care about the perfection of the knowledge they pursue. They do not always have to drag other people into their madness. Maybe that quote would fit into the unhealthy Abnegation type. Some self-righteous people think they're doing you a favor by doing things for your sake that they consider as "saving" you.

I regard Abnegation as related to temperance, which is necessary for keeping everything balanced. If unhealthy Abnegations rule a faction, Tris would be surrounded by overcontrolling leaders. But with healthy Abnegation leaders, a Faction will run smoothly if the followers cooperate and set aside selfish desires. Of course, it's just an idealization. In reality, it is difficult to maintain a community where everyone agrees to everything. I agree when others say that a good leader should also be courageous, wise, honest, and harmonious.

Abnegation was the best choice from what they had to choose from. But what I really think is that the divergent should have been made leaders (were the situation different) because they have a little bit of everything in them. Leaders should have more qualities than just being selfless.

Scott wrote: ↑03 Jun 2014, 13:21 The following discussion question was included in some copies of the June book of the month, Divergent by Veronica Roth.

Why is Tris’s government run only by members of Abnegation? Do you think this is a good idea? Do you agree with her father’s statement that “valuing knowledge above all else results in a lust for power, and that leads men into dark and empty places” (p. 35)? Why or why not?

Abnegation was chosen to run the government since they were selfless and could put the needs of other factions before their personal needs. It does seems an ideal solution, but other factions might feel as if they have no choice in many matters and this might build resentment towards Abnegation. which is why I think the government should have had representatives from each faction.

As for Tris's father's statement, I agree with it. Knowledge should be gained but it should be for the right reasons.

I think assuming that selflessness is all that's needed to run a country is naive. There are a lot of intelligent (knowledge-based) decisions and so Erudite shouldn't be kept out of it. And a lust for knowledge isn't selfish or bad.

Being a leader with just goodwill of your people in your heart doesn't cut it. Occasionally, a leader needs to make hard and difficult choices. That's what is lacking in an Abnegation lead administration.

I understand where the thought came from since they are all selfless. However multiple viewpoints are needed for any governing body.

I feel that without valuing knowledge above all, we can't progress as a society. A government run by Abnegation will be like that. Peaceful maybe, but stagnant (leading to decline) definitely.

I do not agree with their government being run only by Abnegation. It should be a member from each faction in order to keep things fair for all of them. Unfortunately, I can understand how there is no trust between Abnegation and other factions. It's not a matter of Abnegation being good people. Most of them are good people, but there are good people in the other factions too. That's why they all should be represented. Maybe issues could have been avoided if this had been the case. There might have been more trust between the factions.

Whichever faction would have been in power, everyone would have been doomed regardless. That's what happens when you give humans power to govern themselves: chaos. So even the selfless Abnegation would have found a way to mess it up. Just a matter of time

From my point of view, each faction should intervene. However, in the divergent world it makes a lot of sense, since according to their divisions, Abnegation is the ideal one to carry out these tasks.

I don't think any one faction should have so much power. There should be a committee with a leader representing every faction.

I wonder if their own faction would suffer because of their extreme selflessness.

To be fair, we didn't see a single Abnegation member who was worthy of such a post. For a community that is supposedly selfless, everyone seemed short sighted and selfish.