I noticed the same thing. It's been a long time since I got two scorecards now. I think it is much easier this way for everyone – for the editors, as you said, and for the reviewers too; it is less frustrating.Shirley Ann Riddern Labzentis wrote: ↑18 Feb 2024, 09:54 There was a time, only a few months ago, that almost every review received two scores which was the difference between the two editors. No two editors score the same. I don't know why they did it this way as it caused a lot of confusion and disputes. I have noticed that lately, my reviews have only been given to one editor. Now, whether they have changed their policy, I don't know. Let's hope that they keep with one editor.
Why do editors make so many mistakes?
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Re: Why do editors make so many mistakes?
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Absolutely, it does seem like a lot of work! I used to think editors were compensated for it. Personally, I couldn't do it – firstly, I don't feel qualified enough, and secondly, judging others' work must be quite challenging. Still, I have a lot of admiration for those who take on the task.Alissa Nesson wrote: ↑17 Feb 2024, 21:00 Thanks for your reply. That’s a lot of work for a volunteer position. Can you tell me why there would be two score cards unless the review was sent back to be fixed? That confuses me.
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I have had and still have the same issues you spoke about. In fact, I've gone on and on again with editors and even admin about these things. The subjectivity, use of commas etc. The most annoying part is, I had a recent review which was scored by an editor and told to remove some commas that were used subjectively, I removed these commas only for another editor to call them errors and scored me very low. I almost ran mad as I was so furious.Shirley Ann Riddern Labzentis wrote: ↑26 Dec 2023, 10:06 I have three grammar apps that I run my reviews through before I submit them. They will tell me if I forgot a comma or if I need to remove a comma that didn't belong there. Usually, they all agree on the same punctuation. However, when I submit my review, almost every time, an editor will say that I needed to place a comma here and there and I get deducted points. Who is to say that the editor is correct and the apps, Grammarly, Scribbens, etc. are wrong? If you are in this for the long haul, which I am, you can't protest every review, I have done close to 50 reviews, since you are given only so many chances to challenge the editors in a lifetime! I don't think that this is fair, but I understand that the staff is overwhelmed and some reviewers will submit every review for re-consideration. Yet, when you are an editor, you are asked to overlook the commas that an author might miss, as commas are subjective and therefore, the commas are uncounted errors. Shouldn't the same guidelines be applied to the reviewers? Just wanted to vent this morning as another review got a lower score than I anticipated.
I run all my reviews through paid AI and Grammar checkers and they all say the reviews are grammatically correct and I have been an English teacher for over 30 years yet an editor argues it's not correct and ofc they have the final say about it. So are the grammar checkers and ai wrong while the editor and sometimes admin right, due to lack of updated grammar rules or subjectivity? It sometimes feel like they take pride in just saying there's an error in a review even when there's no error or no guideline breach
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Anyway, I'm going to mention my three alleged grammar errors here, since I can actually use proper spacing and maybe get some good feedback. I am still learning to use these forums. They sort of feel overwhelming at this point. I wish I had kept a grammar book from school, although it has always come to me intuitively.
1. The first one was: "At times it feels like a historical novel, especially given the flippant manner in which tragedies are presented."
Suggested correction was: "At times, it feels like a historical novel, especially given the flippant manner in which tragedies are presented."
I felt like the extra comma should be optional. And I noticed someone else said they'd had disagreements over comma placement. I felt like an extra comma made the sentence sound stilted. And I noted that reviewers are discouraged from being too hard on authors for comma placement, since that can be a matter of style. I'm not sure if this was a matter of style or if I made a legit mistake here.
2. "It also diminished the story that the characters pretty much spoke alike."
Correction: "It also diminished the story because the characters pretty much spoke alike."
Strikes me as a matter of style, but if someone knows why this would be a grammar error and could direct me to a reference so I can understand the principle. then I would appreciate it. In case the mistake was legitimate.
3. "Credit where it is due, not many modern novels do that as strongly as this tale, which begins in World War II, a traumatic period of history that the world has not yet seen the equal of. "
Correction from editor: "Credit where it is due, not many modern novels do that as strongly as this tale, which begins in World War II, a traumatic period of history that the world has not yet seen the equivalent of."
And I feel like the word "equivalent" just neuters this sentence, which in the context of the review, was meant to pack a little bit of a punch. The words were supposed to carry a tone of authority. If the word "equal" here is grammatically incorrect, again, I'd appreciate if someone could point me to why.
I've had several poor scores that I was at a loss to understand. I envy those of you getting bummed out by only getting 97% instead of 100%, because this latest score of 61% is the highest I've gotten so far. And sometimes I've put the reviews through a lot more editing than I did for college papers that I did great on back in the day. It has become really frustrating. Because I do not know what I'm doing wrong, and sometimes _if_ I'm actually doing something wrong. Or if I just caught an editor who was in a bad mood, looking for something to gripe about.
It is really weird though, because they often say they enjoyed reading the review, or could tell that I spent a lot of time on it. Sometimes I did make legitimate errors. I am willing to learn from those. But I can only learn if I understand why something was counted as an error. At least I am not alone in this. I've done eight reviews before complaining about it. It's more like I'm trying to figure it out. If the mistake is on my part, I will fix it. It's hard to know sometimes.
For my #2 example, I did find a way to rewrite the sentence that was better than my awkward phrasing or what the editor suggested: "Another thing that diminished the story was the fact that the characters pretty much spoke alike."
At least it is thought-provoking to ruminate over the scorecards. But I used to get 90% or greater on papers at a tough college. My first writing teacher had the longest tenure there, and it cracked her up when somebody found mistakes on my papers, like it proved I was human after all. The second professor I had told me after the class ended that he was glad he could teach me something, since I already wrote very well. So it has been very discouraging to suddenly get hit with so much criticism for allegedly poor grammar. It feels like it comes out of nowhere sometimes, although other times, I can clearly see that I did make a mistake, and sort of do a #facepalm moment.
Maybe with practice, some day I can at least get 80% on a review here. But it has been jarring to go from A's in school to a D- or F here. And not know why.
I known this post will have errors. I am writing it off the top of my head when I am already really tired. So this is not a great sample of my writing. But it is nice to know that other people have the same thing happen. I probably won't post about it again in the future, just put up with it, sort of like I put up with having to serve food that was dropped on the floor at a fast food job. Really all a person can do is his best work. Just dust oneself off and try again.
But I am curious about the examples I gave. I wish my grasp of grammar was more strict and logical. I always did it by intuition, because I read a lot and have practiced writing a lot. But these editors can be really strict. And I need to find a good old book that clearly states what the rules are. Still curious for other reviewers' feedback if any of you have time to read this spill.
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I would still be curious to what the gold standard is these days for a grammar book. I had some good ones from school but lost them when in unstable living situations. If only I remembered the titles. One was something about an "MLA format" that is the standard for scholarly papers and a lot of technical writing.
And I'd be curious as to who thinks I need a comma after "At times" in example #1. I could hear someone speaking that sentence with a pause there, but I would be more likely not to pause there in my own speech. I would only pause after the word "novel".
It may be time to re-educate myself about basic rules of grammar though instead of relying on intuition. Some rules are flexible or subjective, but some things really are black and white.
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Hi there, I did read your posts and exactly understand your frustration. I agree that the bits you pointed out are mostly subjective mistakes, as the use of commas is mostly arbitrary. Strangely enough, I had an author, for the first time ever, who came back to me saying that the mistakes I noted in their book weren't mistakes because they involved commas and were just a question of style, and the moderator agreed with them! Anyway, 60% is a good score, especially for a newcomer. At first, I used to score really low because I didn’t understand part of the guidelines, but then I got them. However, it still upsets me when an editor wrongly marks mistakes. I try to use simple, straightforward sentences most of the time and overuse commas!Matt Graves wrote: ↑19 Mar 2024, 02:00 For anybody who bothered to read the mess above, I hope I wasn't too gripey. I requested a recheck, and the editor was fair and reasonably polite.
I would still be curious to what the gold standard is these days for a grammar book. I had some good ones from school but lost them when in unstable living situations. If only I remembered the titles. One was something about an "MLA format" that is the standard for scholarly papers and a lot of technical writing.
And I'd be curious as to who thinks I need a comma after "At times" in example #1. I could hear someone speaking that sentence with a pause there, but I would be more likely not to pause there in my own speech. I would only pause after the word "novel".
It may be time to re-educate myself about basic rules of grammar though instead of relying on intuition. Some rules are flexible or subjective, but some things really are black and white.
"At times it feels like a historical novel, especially given the flippant manner in which tragedies are presented." You're correct. The sentence is grammatically correct and understandable both with and without the comma. The inclusion of the comma is a stylistic choice rather than a grammatical necessity. It's perfectly fine to omit the comma if you prefer the flow of the sentence without it.
All the best with everything!
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I did not realize authors were allowed to interact with reviewers like you described.
Tickled me when you said your policy was to overuse commas now.
It really cracks me up that nobody has answered the basic question of what is the best standard grammar book currently in use. Maybe nobody knows ... ?
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