Possessive Apostrophe

[Mary WhiteFace]

Possessive noun - Is it: Kathy's book or Kathys' book?

Everywhere I look, I see Kathy's book. Everytime I see the previous statement, my initial thought is, "Kathy is book." That's the way I was taught. The apostrophe replaces the letter i. (At least in that instance.) I was taught to show possession as: Kathys' book. That little rhyming sentence has popped in my head every time I see, or write, a possessive. It's probably the one either my teacher, or my dad, used as an example. Now it's stuck in my head forever.

I understand that the apostrophe before the s has become the accepted norm. When I see someone else do it, I'm fine. I've tried to do it. I've used 's in a possessive a couple of times here in the OnlineBookClub, just to test it. I thought it wouldn't matter. Yet, I flinch at the sight when I read my own words...lol

"Because everyone is doing it" is a cliff I refuse to jump over. I want structure. I want simplicity. Something I did not get when I Googled "Possessive Apostrophe". I got 11 Rules, with three of the rules having multiple parts. Number two goes from 2a to 2e. Structured: as a bridge about to topple over. Simple: seriously!?
https://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/commas.asp

My Google keypad used to have issues with my placing the apostrophe at the end of the word. Continuously moving that slippery little thing when I wasn't paying attention. It has since learned that I occasionally like my apostrophe to look like a little tail.

How do you write a possessive noun? What is the simplest way to remember which rule applies?

[MrsCatInTheHat]

For a singular person, it would be "She borrowed Kathy's book."

For a group, it would be, "The teachers' supplies are housed in the storage closet."

[inaramid]

That's the way I was taught. The apostrophe replaces the letter i. (At least in that instance.) I was taught to show possession as: Kathys' book. That little rhyming sentence has popped in my head every time I see, or write, a possessive.

You're thinking about contraction, not possession. Apostrophes are used to indicate both.

Contraction: Kathy is in the lab. -- Kathy's in the lab.
Possession: The house of Kathy is nearby. -- Kathy's house is nearby. (I'm not saying, "Kathy is house." I'm saying, "the house of Kathy.")

Try this link: http://writing2.richmond.edu/writing/ww ... ssive.html

[Mary WhiteFace]

For a singular person, it would be "She borrowed Kathy's book."

For a group, it would be, "The teachers' supplies are housed in the storage closet."

So, if the noun I am wanting to show as possessive is singular, as in one person, I use 's. If the noun I am wanting to show as possessive is plural, as in multiple people, I use s'.

Do I have that correctly? Just want to make sure I've got it.

[Mary WhiteFace]

That's the way I was taught. The apostrophe replaces the letter i. (At least in that instance.) I was taught to show possession as: Kathys' book. That little rhyming sentence has popped in my head every time I see, or write, a possessive.

You're thinking about contraction, not possession. Apostrophes are used to indicate both.

Contraction: Kathy is in the lab. -- Kathy's in the lab.
Possession: The house of Kathy is nearby. -- Kathy's house is nearby. (I'm not saying, "Kathy is house." I'm saying, "the house of Kathy.")

Try this link: http://writing2.richmond.edu/writing/ww ... ssive.html

Thank you for the link. This is what I found and my interpretation:

The students' car was towed away.
If the students all owned the car, this works. If it belongs to one student, then it would be "student's car."

My interpretation is that if the noun is singular, I use 's. If the noun is plural, I use s'.

Do you agree?

[Bianka Walter]

That's the way I was taught. The apostrophe replaces the letter i. (At least in that instance.) I was taught to show possession as: Kathys' book. That little rhyming sentence has popped in my head every time I see, or write, a possessive.

You're thinking about contraction, not possession. Apostrophes are used to indicate both.

Contraction: Kathy is in the lab. -- Kathy's in the lab.
Possession: The house of Kathy is nearby. -- Kathy's house is nearby. (I'm not saying, "Kathy is house." I'm saying, "the house of Kathy.")

Try this link: http://writing2.richmond.edu/writing/ww ... ssive.html

Thank you for the link. This is what I found and my interpretation:

The students' car was towed away.
If the students all owned the car, this works. If it belongs to one student, then it would be "student's car."

My interpretation is that if the noun is singular, I use 's. If the noun is plural, I use s'.

Do you agree?

That's right. You can also put the apostrophe on the end of names that end in s. But both work.
Those are Jesus' shoes.
Those are Jesus's shoes.
Either or.

[Mary WhiteFace]

You're thinking about contraction, not possession. Apostrophes are used to indicate both.

Contraction: Kathy is in the lab. -- Kathy's in the lab.
Possession: The house of Kathy is nearby. -- Kathy's house is nearby. (I'm not saying, "Kathy is house." I'm saying, "the house of Kathy.")

Try this link: http://writing2.richmond.edu/writing/ww ... ssive.html

Thank you for the link. This is what I found and my interpretation:

The students' car was towed away.
If the students all owned the car, this works. If it belongs to one student, then it would be "student's car."

My interpretation is that if the noun is singular, I use 's. If the noun is plural, I use s'.

Do you agree?

That's right. You can also put the apostrophe on the end of names that end in s. But both work.
Those are Jesus' shoes.
Those are Jesus's shoes.
Either or.

This is going to take some getting used to. I might be showing my age by saying this, but this isn't how I was taught in grade school. I even asked my mom how she remembers it. We both agreed that we were taught to put the possessive apostrophes at the end, always. She's close to 80. Things change with time.
Thank you

[MrsCatInTheHat]

Thank you for the link. This is what I found and my interpretation:


My interpretation is that if the noun is singular, I use 's. If the noun is plural, I use s'.

Do you agree?

That's right. You can also put the apostrophe on the end of names that end in s. But both work.
Those are Jesus' shoes.
Those are Jesus's shoes.
Either or.

This is going to take some getting used to. I might be showing my age by saying this, but this isn't how I was taught in grade school. I even asked my mom how she remembers it. We both agreed that we were taught to put the possessive apostrophes at the end, always. She's close to 80. Things change with time.
Thank you

Most of it was what I was taught; I graduated in the early '80s. The only that I don't do, and would need to see a source showing the change, is the singular possessive of a name ending in "s." I would write it Jesus' shoes, not Jesus's shoes.

[Bianka Walter]

That's right. You can also put the apostrophe on the end of names that end in s. But both work.
Those are Jesus' shoes.
Those are Jesus's shoes.
Either or.

This is going to take some getting used to. I might be showing my age by saying this, but this isn't how I was taught in grade school. I even asked my mom how she remembers it. We both agreed that we were taught to put the possessive apostrophes at the end, always. She's close to 80. Things change with time.
Thank you

Most of it was what I was taught; I graduated in the early '80s. The only that I don't do, and would need to see a source showing the change, is the singular possessive of a name ending in "s." I would write it Jesus' shoes, not Jesus's shoes.

I'm with you CatInTheHat - I write it Jesus' shoes. So I've done some research on this, and it seems no one really agrees. So the rule is just to be consistent with whichever way you pick. Jesus's just look weird to me.

[Mary WhiteFace]

This is going to take some getting used to. I might be showing my age by saying this, but this isn't how I was taught in grade school. I even asked my mom how she remembers it. We both agreed that we were taught to put the possessive apostrophes at the end, always. She's close to 80. Things change with time.
Thank you

Most of it was what I was taught; I graduated in the early '80s. The only that I don't do, and would need to see a source showing the change, is the singular possessive of a name ending in "s." I would write it Jesus' shoes, not Jesus's shoes.

I'm with you CatInTheHat - I write it Jesus' shoes. So I've done some research on this, and it seems no one really agrees. So the rule is just to be consistent with whichever way you pick. Jesus's just look weird to me.

I can do consistency. I just don't want to get points taken off for saying Kathys' book. I've been putting the possessive apostrophes at the end of the noun for as long as I can remember. It would be a hard one to change.

[inaramid]

This is going to take some getting used to. I might be showing my age by saying this, but this isn't how I was taught in grade school. I even asked my mom how she remembers it. We both agreed that we were taught to put the possessive apostrophes at the end, always. She's close to 80. Things change with time.
Thank you

Most of it was what I was taught; I graduated in the early '80s. The only that I don't do, and would need to see a source showing the change, is the singular possessive of a name ending in "s." I would write it Jesus' shoes, not Jesus's shoes.

I'm with you CatInTheHat - I write it Jesus' shoes. So I've done some research on this, and it seems no one really agrees. So the rule is just to be consistent with whichever way you pick. Jesus's just look weird to me.

Agree with Bianka and CatinTheHat. The rules for showing possession for plural and singular nouns are more clear-cut when they do not end in -s (girl's dress, children's class).

Then you have nouns that end in -s (Paris' sights, girls' dresses). Alternatively, you also see things like the news's impact or Williams's family. British English vs. American English, I guess? In Harry Potter, Rowling writes, Sirius's friend. I'm not opposed to either. True though, you just have to be consistent.

[Yssimnar]

If the noun is plural but doesn't end it -s, you would still need the apostrophe. For example, "The mice's cheese is rotting." or "children's books"

[Mary WhiteFace]

This is going to take some getting used to. I might be showing my age by saying this, but this isn't how I was taught in grade school. I even asked my mom how she remembers it. We both agreed that we were taught to put the possessive apostrophes at the end, always. She's close to 80. Things change with time.
Thank you

Most of it was what I was taught; I graduated in the early '80s. The only that I don't do, and would need to see a source showing the change, is the singular possessive of a name ending in "s." I would write it Jesus' shoes, not Jesus's shoes.

I'm with you CatInTheHat - I write it Jesus' shoes. So I've done some research on this, and it seems no one really agrees. So the rule is just to be consistent with whichever way you pick. Jesus's just look weird to me.

You hit the nail on the head. I was hoping that someone else would realized this and point it out. "...it seems no one really agrees." That is the reason I started this Forum post.

I believe that is why a college will have a specific guidebook for all students to use. It is posted, and all Grammar, Formatting and Punctuation Standards are defined.

It really would help if we had such a guidebook here. The International Grammar Forum is nice, for debating and discussing, but we need an actual reference guide.

The link to the guide could be posted within the Review Team Guidelines. Everyone would have easy access to it. It would be easy to find. The most important thing is that there would be no more confusion. No matter what country the reviewer is from.

[KUTHEA]

Possessive nouns are used to show ownership or possession. Possession is indicated by apostrophe ('s or s'. The position of the apostrophe is determined by the nature of the noun.
For singular nouns , the apostrophe comes before "s"
E.g. Kathy's Book
For plural we use s'
E.g. Girls' school.
If the noun ends in s then apostrophe is inserted after the s to indicate possession
E.g.James' book

[Mary WhiteFace]

Possessive nouns are used to show ownership or possession. Possession is indicated by apostrophe ('s or s'. The position of the apostrophe is determined by the nature of the noun.
For singular nouns , the apostrophe comes before "s"
E.g. Kathy's Book
For plural we use s'
E.g. Girls' school.
If the noun ends in s then apostrophe is inserted after the s to indicate possession
E.g.James' book

Thank you for the summary. It is easy to understand, which should make it easier to follow.