Is it really poetry?

[knightss]

What do you consider to be poetry?
Just because someone writes whatever vile thing pops into their head on paper and they give it a title, doesn't make it poetry. Maybe I'm wrong?
I think poetry is an art form.. it's something crafted to draw a certain human emotion that is intended in the writers thoughts from the start. "Ranting" poetry annoys me so much.. maybe that's what they were trying to do? If so then they did it well lol. Being disgusting isn't shocking, it's just immature.
I guess I could have written this little rant in a 'poetic' form lol.

alright, i'm done, i just had to get that out.

[Tracey Neal]

What do you consider to be poetry?
Just because someone writes whatever vile thing pops into their head on paper and they give it a title, doesn't make it poetry. Maybe I'm wrong?
I think poetry is an art form.. it's something crafted to draw a certain human emotion that is intended in the writers thoughts from the start. "Ranting" poetry annoys me so much.. maybe that's what they were trying to do? If so then they did it well lol. Being disgusting isn't shocking, it's just immature.
I guess I could have written this little rant in a 'poetic' form lol.

alright, i'm done, i just had to get that out.

Great question Derek

Art is expressed differently through each person, vile can be a part of that sometimes. If they were able to get any sort of reaction from you I would assume they can write. maybe? Unfortunately I think all writers, well poets can hit a ranting stage, especially if their under stress. I try not to judge anyones writing. It was something they felt at that particular time I guess. But thats just my opinion.

[Libellus]

What determines if something is a poem?
Classic constructs? Punctuation (or lack)? Invoking emotion (or not)? Melodic/Rhythmic word play? I dont know!

I know some of the things I consider to be poetry - but couldnt give an absolute definition, and anything I put down may/would not accommodate some one else's view. Then again I can read something new and it challenges my perception.

On the whole though I tend to agree with Derek - there has to be craft and intent. (Now the reaction may be different for every reader - "I'll go no more a roving Thread"? But hey we all see things differently)

Otherwise its just a brain-dump with a title. aka Work in Progress

[From a different thread .....
sleepydumpling wrote:
<snip>. And like all other poetry, there is quality and crap!
]

Which I think is a great line and I guess the bottom line for everything.... and probably a good point for me to take my foot out of my mouth.

[saracen77]

I think some people would see the brain dump works (thanks Libellus, that's a great description!) as poetry, in much the same way as people go to look at an unmade bed and say it's art. Doesn't do anything for me, it's just housework waiting to be done, but if it floats your boat...

Like with all "art" a certain amount is subjective, but then, you have to look at it and say, did this person actually try here, or are they just taking the mick...

I much prefer a poem with some substance, structure, and purpose, to much of the so-called free form stuff.

[Tracey Neal]

I totally respect each individuals opinion, however think about it, what if Charles Bukowski stopped writing or just publishing his work because people thought him to be a dirty ole vile dude...good or bad..rant or peaceful easy...poetry falls under a broad range of art...immature sure some poems can be, but its like what was mentioned, "to each ones perception or interpretation". I say write as you wish..no censor or fear..because even fleeting thoughts and random brain dumps and immaturity and or rants can become ones greatest achievement...maybe even make a mark in history? Because what one might find vile...another might say genius.

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.”
-Martin Luther King Jr., Strength to Love, 1963.....I really love this quote


challenge and controversy....I love it!!!!

[awelker]

star i really like that quote. it is so true.

[Libellus]

Star I agree with Alli a truely great quote.

And I love the pop at Tracey, Saracen - my house must be worth a fortune

I am not against any type of writing. I dont want to comment on the vocab or the (im)maturity of the writing, because that is just more subjectivity. One man's vile is, as you say, another man's genius.

If it works for the writer - in whatever way - that is a result. If there is an audience that appreciates your work as well then that's a bonus.

I guess all I am trying to saying is "ranting with a title" , for me, isnt poetry. In the same way as a group of babies banging their plates with a spoon isnt Music - its noise.

Art, in all its guises, should challenge your ideas and perceptions, but it doesnt always win.

[Scott]

Good question!

Maybe anything written in verse is poetry. Maybe any writing that the author says is poetry is poetry. It is hard to say what is poetry and what is not, but maybe it will be easier just to say it is all poetry and that some of it is good poetry while the rest is very bad poetry.

[angeleyes]

Is up to the person, its all opinion when written.
Everyone has different ideas.

[Niphredil]

Id guess Im not the only one whose ideas on what poetry or what art in general is change more often than my underwear?

At the moment my thinking is this ("my" being used in the loosest sense to mean what I've stolen from various essays and philosophers)

The aim of art is to be beautiful, and nothing else.

Then of course you have to define beauty, so you've pretty much taken one step forward and two back. But that at least eradicates anything with its main aim as a social purpose. There is nothing that annoys me more (well there is, but it annoys me alot) than going into a modern art gallery and seeing rows of "feminist" works and "marxist" works that are actually hideous. That sort of thing must be something, but I don't think it's art. Of course I had to say MAIN purpose cause things can be beautiful AND have a social purpose, otherwise Jane Austen and Dickens wouldn't have any beauty, and thats clearly not true.

So in Poetry, that would get rid of anything overtly trying to give a social message. Verse with a social message, like a painting with a social message, is a very nicely crafted useful piece and has it's due place in the round of human creation. But it isn't poetry.

But also, if something is beautiful, it would have to be beautiful to all people surely? This seems impossible really, people are so obviously different, so for this to work you have to be of the opinion that at the core of every human being is something essentially human, some kind of common experience. Conveniently, at the moment I am of this opinion.

Beauty then becomes something that corresponds with or discords with that inner common experience. PLEASE feel free to challenge me on this!

But, if we assume that as a definition of beauty, it really defines the boundaries for poetry. For one, you get rid of all the emotional teenage rantings that annoy people so much but which are so hard to kick out of the definition, so that should please most people (those that don't write it mostly!).

You may be now thinking "but isn't emotion part of that common experience, even the most important part?!?" But here is the clever bit and the most difficult when writing poetry - IF THE AIM OF POETRY IS TOWARDS THE COMMON EXPERIENCE, THEN THE SELF IS TO BE AT ALL COSTS AVOIDED! It's all very well to explore the depths of your own psyche using the craft side of poetry, but what you produce will not be art as it holds little or no interest for anyone else, and it will be nearly impossible for anyone else to see it as beautiful. Like the social purpose I suppose this would have to mean that the MAIN purpose of the poem would have to be selfless rather than it having nothing to do with the self, which is possibly also impossible.

If by some wacky wormhole in the space time continuum you have actually read all of that waffle, please, dear god please, let me know what you think, don't leave having suffered in vain!

waffle over.

[CassieXO]

What do you consider to be poetry?

I don't think poetry or any other kind of art can be defined.
I once heard somebody say in regards to painting, "You have to know the rules of art in order to break them."
I think that many people do not respect this and write what you called 'rant poetry.'

For instantce, if I took a piece of paper, drew a purple dot and called it art, nobody would respect it as art. However, if Van Gogh did the same thing it would sell for insane prices at ritsy european auctions.

So like panting, you have to know the rules of poetry in order to break them.

[Robin jackson]

everyone have different idea about any object or anything........ same goes for poetry....