Official Interview: Joe P. Provenzano, Ron D. Morgan, and Dan R. Provenzano

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Today's Chat with Sarah features Joe P. Provenzano, Ron D. Morgan, and Dan R. Provenzano authors of How Is God Involved in Evolution?

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1. For those that don't know, can you give us a quick synopsis of your book How is God Involved in Evolution?

We asked that question a long time ago, but we could not find a comprehensive answer that completely satisfied us. In fact, asking that question led to other questions that seemed to have incompatible answers. The effort became a 50-year journey before it finally resulted in new, unique connections between science and religion that really made sense to us. This book tells the story of that journey in a way that can be understood by people who do not have a scientific or technical background. By the end of the book, you'll understand how we used insights from modern science to get a new, interdisciplinary approach, leading to a new way to explain how God is involved in evolution.

2. This book has three authors. How did you meet and what was the collaboration like?

Joe and Ron met because we married sisters (Linda and Sandy). In one of the greatest "coincidences" both Joe and Ron were deeply interested in philosophy and physics, especially as related to God and evolution. Very soon we became best friends. During this journey, Joe got a master's degree in physics and Ron became a deacon. Their close relationship led to many heated discussions searching for truth. Dan is Joe and Linda's son. He grew up at a time when Joe was researching philosophers and writing his previous books. Dan was also interested in physical science and pursued a degree in physics. Along the way Dan got deep into the discussions, acquired a PhD in physics from Caltech, and wrote his own interpretation of quantum mechanics. Years went by as all three continued to challenge each other to build self-consistent, interdisciplinary insights on these topics. All three authors were needed to get these insights.

3. God and evolution are two words that you don't usually see in the same sentence. Why did you decide to try to reconcile them?

It's true that most people haven't thought too much about this question in the past, but it is becoming a bigger issue for the younger generations. As a result, an increasing number of people have tried to reconcile God and evolution. We studied all the different approaches to answer this question that we could find but were not satisfied with any of them. We believe that our diverse backgrounds allowed us to put more puzzle pieces together compared to just scientists or just religious leaders working separately. We came up with a new approach and a new way to explain how God is involved in evolution.

4. How much research did it take to even begin to reconcile God and evolution?

We have been working on this problem for all of our adult lives. This book tells the story of exactly when and how we got new, interdisciplinary insights into each piece of the puzzle. It wasn't until 2021 that we put all the pieces together leading to a new approach that we could explain to others. That's when we published our first book The Fallen Angel Model: Deeper into the Mysteries. That book provides the technical details that are not provided in this book.

5. What was the most difficult part of writing the book?

We know from many discussions that it's very difficult to persuade people to consider new ideas and think "outside the box." We encountered this directly trying to write up our new ideas. There are two common ways or paradigms that people use to describe the "stuff" in the universe. The first is materialism where only the physical is real. The second paradigm includes a separate, spiritual (non-physical) reality which describes how God, angels and human souls exist. We could not find a satisfactory answer to our question within either of these paradigms. We discovered a third paradigm brings a remarkable consistency to the notion of God's involvement in evolution and allows for a new approach to answering the question. It was difficult to work up this explanation and to present it in a non-technical way.

6. What did you learn from writing the book? What are you hoping others glean from it?

We learned how hard it is to get people to accept a new paradigm or way of looking at reality, even if it is based on science and opens the way for new answers to questions that have never been adequately answered before.

We are hoping that others will see the connections we have made between faith and science/evolution, and that these connections will remove any scientific obstacles to their faith in God.

7. Do each of you have a favorite part of the book or favorite quote that you can share?

Joe: When I was in college, I encountered, and was deeply troubled by, two separate problems that seemed to have no solutions. The first was: How can I get a logical interpretation of quantum physics? The second was: How is God involved in evolution? I did not really expect that I'd get good answers to both questions. But not only did I get good answers, they are related. The answer to the first question is needed to explain our answer to the second question. All of this is summarized in my favorite chapter, Chapter 10, the final chapter in the book.

Ron: My favorite part of our book is found in pp 24-27 (Chapter 3, Question 4). We address the problem of how the doctrine of Original Sin needs to be reconciled with science. The Fallen Angel Model provides a model for theologians to explore and further develop.

Dan: In college I came to see how evolution is really a "dog eat dog" process filled with suffering and death. From science we know that universe was like that long before the first humans came into existence. I had trouble trying to understand why God would want to create such a process, especially if He could instantly create angels. Our Fallen Angel Model resolves this issue. It describes the beginning our evolving universe as a consequence of the free will sin of the fallen angels. Chapter 5 tells the story of how Joe and Ron originally got this idea.

8. What's next for you?

Our insights and ideas have strengthened our faith in God. We want to get these ideas to the people who need them or can benefit from them. Many people see science and evolution as blocking their belief in God because they are not convinced by the current explanations that are "on the table." We are willing to answer questions about the ideas in the book or give presentations.

9. Who are your favorite philosophers?

St. Thomas Aquinas and Teilhard de Chardin. St. Thomas lived in the 13th century and developed much, if not most, of the theology that Christians use today to better understand and explain their basic beliefs. Of course, he did not know about evolution. Teilhard was a Jesuit priest who died in 1955. His philosophy allowed him to develop a theology that made almost all of Christianity consistent with evolution. The problem is that "almost all" is not "all." The exciting thing is that we used ideas from both of these great thinkers to get a new way to explain how God is involved in evolution.

10. What advice would you give to those who are trying to reconcile two seemingly opposing viewpoints?

They should examine their implicit assumptions. It may be that something they are taking for granted as true may not actually be true, and that is preventing them from seeing a way to reconciling the seemingly opposing viewpoints. That is exactly what happened in our case.

[Blessed Hope]

There has always been controversy between the darwinists who believe that humans evolved from apelike creatures over a long period of time. They even have fossil records to prove their point like the "Turkana Boy" and archaeological sites like Olduvai gorge and Olorgesaile and on the hand there are the conservative christian who believe in the creationist model, they believe that we descended from Adam and Eve. They even have gone to the extent of burning studying of evolution theory in the Bible belt zone and deep red states of America. I hope by reading your book, both camps can come to an understanding.