The Aeneid ~ Books 1-2

[Scott]

This is the discussion thread for the first two books of The Aeneid. If you have not yet read the first two books, do not read any further. If you have read past the first two books, you can still participate here, but do not say anything about anything past the first two books in this thread.

What do you think of the story so far? Are you enjoying it? Has it caught your interest? I read the first two books straight through, and find myself very interested in reading the rest. Reading in verse took some time to get used to, though.

Do you think the first two books make Aeneas look like a good leader? I think he seems like a good leader, especially from his short speech to soothe and motivate his comrades that he makes at lines 276-289 in book 1.

What do you think of Venus? I think she seems needlessly deceitful; do you also think that? She disguised herself as a huntress when talking to Aeneas between lines 444 and 585 in book 1. When she turns and leaves, Aeneas notices it is her and mentions that she disguises herself often. In my translation, Aeneas says to Venus:

Why do you mock your son--so often and
so cruelly--with these lying apparitions?
Why can't I ever join you, hand to hand,
to hear, to answer you with honest words?

What do you think of Cupid being used as an disguised assassin? I view it as just another example of Venus's deceitfulness.

Do you see Venus as a good and truly loving mother? To me, she seems more like a childish little girl playing with dolls.

In book 2, which consists of back-story, Aeneas tells of how he accidentally left his wife at one point while fleeing from enemy soldiers (near lines 985-1003). What did you think of that? It seemed sort of negligent to me, but he does seem genuinely upset about it and also looks for her.

Last time I read the story of the Trojan horse, I read it in the perspective of the Greek's. (I assume from The Odyssey.) I enjoyed reading it again from a new perspective. What did you think of it?

What's your favorite line or passage from the first two books? Please quote it.

Also, please post questions of your own for the group.

(I am reading a verse translation by Allen Mandelbaum, because it was already in my house. You're probably reading a different translation, and that's fine. Dori posted links to a few online translations, of which I recommend the A. S. Kline translation, which I believe you can use for free.)

Thanks,
Scott

[Dori]

I'm thoroughly enjoying it. The audio version that I own is read by Simon Callow, who, with an european accent of course, renders Robert Fagles' translation flawlessly. My favorite part in The Aeneid is when Neptune intervenes with the winds released by Aeolus:

Book I, Lines 132-143

[Neptune] calls the East and West winds to him, and then says:
‘Does confidence in your birth fill you so? Winds, do you dare,
without my intent, to mix earth with sky, and cause such trouble,
now? You whom I – ! But it’s better to calm the running waves:
you’ll answer to me later for this misfortune, with a different punishment. Hurry, fly now, and say this to your king:
control of the ocean, and the fierce trident, were given to me,
by lot, and not to him. He owns the wild rocks, home to you,
and yours, East Wind: let Aeolus officiate in his palace,
and be king in the closed prison of the winds.’
So he speaks, and swifter than his speech, he calms the swollen sea,
scatters the gathered cloud, and brings back the sun.

Simon Callow's voice is priceless when reading this excerpt.

I agree with you, Scott, in saying Aeneas is a good leader. I'm not too sure about your opinioin on Venus, though. It seems to me, however, that the bickering of the gods plays more of a role in The Aeneid than the deeds of mortal characters.

I believe Venus truly loves her son. I don't know what her motive was in disguising herself (I, 444-585), but I think she acts out of love rather than deceit. When she sends Cupid disguised, I believe it's because she's worried that Juno will turn the Phoenicians against her son. However, perhaps Venus's intentions were solely in spite of Juno, rather than in love of Aeneas. I'm more inclined towards the former, though.

I will post again later, once I've finished book II (I've procrastinated again ).

Here's a silly question (for fun, of course): Who's your favorite god(dess) thus far? I like Neptune .

[knightss]

I found myself being easily confused by in book 1, it took me a while to get used to the verse and the names of people and places are very similiar.. i think i might go back and read the first book again.

I'm really getting into the story at this point though, i'm a little past the second book.

To Scott's Questions: I think Aeneas is portrayed as a pretty good leader so far and his men believe him to be a good leader too, i can't remember where it was in the book but i know one of his men gave a speech about him (i think to Dido?)

Venus does seem to be quite a deceitful goddess up to this point but as far as i've seen the gods are usually portrayed as childish and generally tend to abuse their power right? If they didn't i don't think the stories would be nearly as interesting lol.

As to Aeneas loosing his wife I think that the men of the society were seen as more important among family roles. He was also trying to protect the weakest in his family (his son and father) from danger, I think that it's understandable that he lost his wife in all the commotion.

Book 2: 904-907
My men,
bring arms; the last light calls upon the beaten.
Let be, and let me at the Greeks again,
to make my way back to new battles. Never
shall we all die without revenge.'

The quote really struck me for some reason, it's very passionate, you can feel the emotion in it.

Like i said, i'm really enjoying this so far =) good pick!

[LoveHatesYou]

I am realy enjoying the read thus far- but am far too tied up at work to give much of a decription/ analysis- more from me Monday. Just wanted to let you all know right now I am the silent reader alonger. And yes- that is a term.

[jerolyng]

I'm lad to hear that there is another 'reader-alonger'. I too tend to be the silent member of this book club.

But couldn't resist this time. The Greek version of the Battle of Troy and the Trojan Horse is from the Iliad not the Odyessy. I am loving this book, but sometimes I wish there was a map to identify the places the men visited. A few are familiar but most are not.

[Mikail Light]

. Although I adore this book, there are times when I wish a map showing the locations the men visited might be included. Most of them are unfamiliar, but a handful are.