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Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 09 Feb 2016, 14:12
by TangledinText
She's not realatable to me personally, but I could compare her easily to others I've known before. She is a hard, unfeeling, put off character that is hard to like and it feels like it would be a lot harder to write about a character that people hate than love. Even better is for the author to get you to change your opinion about a character mid way through and grow to like her as she grows, so I enjoy what the author did with this character.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 12 Feb 2016, 23:44
by CrescentMoon
I definitely started respecting her more and more as the story progressed. I love how she came to terms with her behavior and how it affects others and she started to change and grow into a better person. I know what it's like to be teased so I definitely don't find her relatable in the beginning. I don't think I could ever relate to her cold, standoffish nature in the beginning, but after reading this book from her perspective it reminded me of girls like her and makes me wonder if they could relate to Sam.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 15 Feb 2016, 22:00
by katiesquilts
I think I may be one of the few readers who related to her from the start! I never bullied people outright, but I do have a mean sense of humor. Thankfully I've learned when it's appropriate to tease people and when I should just keep my mouth shut for want of making things worse, but my teases were never exactly the "gentle" kind. I was bullied myself in elementary and middle school, but not so much when I moved schools. The friends I made there were involved in lots of school activities, which is almost the same as being popular because people at least know you and have an opinion of you. I stuck myself to one girl who lived down the block from me, and she literally guided me through the rest of my high school years. I had more genuine friends in other classes, but she was so much more available and pushy than my other friends that I ended up in her gravitational pull anyways. Kind of like Samantha and Lindsay. In fact, in the very first chapter Samantha thinks something along the lines of, "I'm just a follower," and that's what I related to the most, because you enter a group and you share all the inside jokes and you gossip, but you're always just a little behind everyone else to see how they act and what reactions to imitate.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 16 Feb 2016, 01:34
by P_hernandez
That follower mentality makes sense, when you put it that way. I couldn't identify with her because I was never bullied and I never had the desire to bully anyone. I had an extremely easy time in school so I couldn't grasp the idea of following like Sam did. But I guess every kid has to find out where they fit in the pecking order of high school lol.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 21 Feb 2016, 13:37
by HorrorFan87
I didn't feel I could relate to her at all. All she was was a bully, and unfortunately I do not think she really learned anything. I found her a bit whiny and pretentious as well. Just because you want to be popular (or are popular) doesn't mean you behave like a spoiled brat. She may have tried to redeem herself in the end but honestly I didn't see it as a truly genuine act. Maybe I was too biased at her original behavior but I don't see performing one act making you a good person or righting all of the cruelty that she unleashed. Maybe I would see it differently if I hadn't dealt with bullies like her in the past or even had a little bit of a glimpse as to what all she did after the story was over. If she had continued to change her ways I might be able to relate to her a little bit more.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 29 Feb 2016, 10:53
by Heidi M Simone
Scott wrote:I worry if Sam might be intentionally hard to relate to because she herself didn't consider her own cruelty-by-following at first either. It's easy to say we wouldn't be like Sam when we use the power of looking at it from an outsider's perspective. But what about when we are on the inside, and the cruelty or following is not condemned by those around us but encouraged? What about when on the inside we are told what we are doing is "good" even though from the outside it looks like what many would "bad" or cruel?
History itself is filled with examples, the most cliche and overused being a certain time in German history. How could the majority of people go along with that? Not just allow it to happen but actively support it? I would never do that, we think.
Are we not capable of cruelty as long as its socially acceptable or encouraged?
Even today, what about the child slaves who make our shoes? What about the factory farmed animals we purchase? In a recent poll, a large percentage of people supported the bombing of Agrabah. Agrabah is not a real city. It's the fictional city from the movie Aladdin. If it was real city filled with real people, how quickly would us--full-grown adults--follow someone else's lead in delivering cruelty to those people because their city has a funny name? How different is that really than high school bullying? The people we call the "bad guys" even historically speaking didn't think of themselves as "bad guys" and would themselves probably say that they can't relate to "bad guys" or "bully's".
One thing I really like about this book, Before I Fall, is the very fact that the question of whether Samantha is relatable does not have an easy answer. We want to say no, but I think saying no itself is one big way the answer might actually be more of a yes.
You bring up a very good point, Scott! My first reaction was 'I am not like Sam, at all, and therefore found her not relatable.' However, after reading your comments, I would say she probably represents a lot of people at varying ages. I can remember doing something that I knew was wrong in high school, but because others were doing it, I followed along. It wasn't bullying, it was more of a stupid decision. But, I fell in the trap of following instead of saying 'this is wrong, we shouldn't do it'.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 01 Mar 2016, 14:57
by bekkilyn
I had a difficult time relating to Sam at first since I didn't care about things like "Cupid's Day" roses, being popular, who liked or disliked me, didn't like drinking, and rarely went to big parties, etc. in high school. I didn't belong to any particular clique and sort of meandered in and around all of them. Yet, as the book went on and I started learning more about Sam, I was able to find more and more common ground with her...like when she enjoyed going off to that spot by herself in the woods, her love of horses, and things like that. She started become more interesting to me as a person during those points and therefore more relatable.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 01 Mar 2016, 18:26
by jhollan2
I thought that Samantha was very relatable as a teenager in high school. Growing up is all about learning that actions have consequences and how to make choices that will do no harm. I never felt like she was deliberately malicious, more that she was self-centered and unable to see how others could be impacted or hurt by her actions. I've read studies that say basically all teenagers are sociopaths because of how their brains are still developed, so they really can't help but to focus mostly on themselves and see themselves as the center of the world.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 04 Mar 2016, 13:56
by Sarah_Khan
I totally agree with you. In the beginning it's hard to relate to Samantha or to even like her but as the story went along I found myself understanding her better which then led me to finding her likable.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 07 Mar 2016, 07:29
by Sarah G
When I first started the book I didn't really like Samantha and couldn't really empathise with her. However as the book progressed I realised that the real Samantha was nearly the entire opposite. The book shows how kids at school can change so drastic just due to peer pressure and the fear of social stigma. I think Lauren Oliver captured this well
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 22 Mar 2016, 04:37
by KateNox
Well, I didn't find Samantha relatable at all. Many of her actions were really mean and unprovoked, not to mention that she appeared to be selfish many times. But, I do agree with Scott that it may be author's intention to picture Sam like that, mainly because individuals operate differently when they get under the influence of a certain group and its rules.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 00:09
by Mune
I did not find Samantha personally relatable. That being said, I found her very believable. I, too, was never into school special days, parties, popularity, and all that (I had to grow up too fast and did not have the time to worry about such immature things when I was living on my own and working evenings after school). I especially believe she is a perfect example of many of the current and recent past few high school generations. She has the entitled attitude, the disrespect for authority and adults, borderline sociopathic tendencies, narcissistic, shallow, etc. I did not like her at all, at first, and was unsure if I was even going to continue reading the story. But as the cycles went on, I was impressed at how honest the author was about this broken, cookie-cutter teen and how well she made her seem REAL. The characters explored sexuality, drank, smoked, snuck out, skipped class, and most of the time thought they had every right too. This is believable. There are no false pretenses, no "perfect" teen attitude, they aren't geniuses or living in perfect families, so it seemed raw and real.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 29 Mar 2016, 05:54
by SharisseEM
Personally, I can't relate to Samantha at all. I could never find it in myself to do such things to someone. Yeah, I will admit to teasing friends about embarrassing topics and such but that's because we're friends. We love to tease each other and stuff but never to the point of hurting each other. I'm not just saying that I could never find it in myself to be this mean to someone without experience to draw on. I've experienced what it's like to have people try to coerce me into taunting others or doing something mean to another and I've refused, cutting ties off with such people. I'm not a saint or anything close to one but I can't bear such cruelty either. If I don't like such things being done to me, I wouldn't do it to another. Still, Samantha did change in the end and that's what's important. She realised what was wrong and changed. When push came to shove, she made the right choice. Better late than never.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 04 Apr 2016, 12:04
by Insomniac07
katiesquilts wrote:I think I may be one of the few readers who related to her from the start! I never bullied people outright, but I do have a mean sense of humor. Thankfully I've learned when it's appropriate to tease people and when I should just keep my mouth shut for want of making things worse, but my teases were never exactly the "gentle" kind. I was bullied myself in elementary and middle school, but not so much when I moved schools. The friends I made there were involved in lots of school activities, which is almost the same as being popular because people at least know you and have an opinion of you. I stuck myself to one girl who lived down the block from me, and she literally guided me through the rest of my high school years. I had more genuine friends in other classes, but she was so much more available and pushy than my other friends that I ended up in her gravitational pull anyways. Kind of like Samantha and Lindsay. In fact, in the very first chapter Samantha thinks something along the lines of, "I'm just a follower," and that's what I related to the most, because you enter a group and you share all the inside jokes and you gossip, but you're always just a little behind everyone else to see how they act and what reactions to imitate.
You weren't the only one. I liked Sam right from the start and could relate to both the mean girl and the changed, more enlightened version of her. Not that I was a bully, but I do have a very dark and sarcastic sense of humour and love teasing people. Hopefully, I can now tell when a joke is appropriate and can't be constructed as being mean.
Re: Do you think Samantha is relatable?
Posted: 14 Apr 2016, 15:01
by Shadowhunter123
Samantha is relatable to me later in the book because in the beginning of the book, she was a follower and bullied people in order to maintain a "popular" status. I have never done that, but in high school some of my friends cyberbullied someone else, but I was more like Samantha in the end because I told them that what they were doing was wrong but encouraged them to stop. However, in the beginning, I could not relate to Samantha at all because she did not really have a mind of her own and only acted the way she did to maintain her status at school which, in the end, would not matter to her later in life.