Vicki - Victim or Deserves it?

[Howlan]

I feel like Vikki is a villain without realising it. She genuinely believed she was doing the right thing.

Right? She thought she was looking out for someone evil with powers... and maybe she right... Some of the things that Adam and Carly do are pretty evil...

Yeah considering what Adam did to Terry.

[Howlan]

I guess that the moment Carly was only thinking about her Father at the time. But I agree that what happened with Vikki was a lot. She was brainwashed and Carly was angry.

And that is a valid point... Maybe Carly has been a bit brainwashed herself?

Nah I don't think Carl was brainwashed. Unless there is a good reason for it.

[Howlan]

I think what Dauma, Carly, and Adam did to Vikki was definitely over the top. To kidnap her and question her was one thing, but I agree that she was only doing what her father instructed her to do. She was not a physical threat to them personally, she was just to find out who had special powers and report it to her father.

Agreed, but since intentional acts of torture (mental or physical) are luckily not something most of us will ever experience (or inflict) maybe it's a bit hard to know exactly what we'd do in a similar, dire situation - but in this particular context of plot development, it did seem a bit excessive.

Especially with Carly wearing a sexy outfit... it made that whole scene come off as some sexual torture porn...

Yeah like SM ?

[Howlan]

What they did to Vicki wasn't fair at all. Their methods of torture were desperate and overboard. Vicki believed she was doing the right thing. She wasn't even a physical threat to them!

Yeah it was sad that Vikki became a victim of Carly and her mother's emotional turmoil.

[Nym182]

Agreed, but since intentional acts of torture (mental or physical) are luckily not something most of us will ever experience (or inflict) maybe it's a bit hard to know exactly what we'd do in a similar, dire situation - but in this particular context of plot development, it did seem a bit excessive.

Especially with Carly wearing a sexy outfit... it made that whole scene come off as some sexual torture porn...

Yeah like SM ?

exactly! seems like it would be right up Adam's alley...

[gilliansisley]

I think what Dauma, Carly, and Adam did to Vikki was definitely over the top. To kidnap her and question her was one thing, but I agree that she was only doing what her father instructed her to do. She was not a physical threat to them personally, she was just to find out who had special powers and report it to her father.

Everything they did was over the top! This book was a constant pattern of people behaving toxically, and it just apparently being okay because they're the main characters? Just chilling

[gilliansisley]

Of course, it was not fair at all. She is mostly innocent if whatever he got to know about her is true. But in terms of Carly and Dauma, they really needed information about their father, so they did what they could. Sure it's quite unbelievable for Carly for torturing her, but the previous experience of her with an Iksha spy might have been replaying in her mind which led to her father's capture. Also, Daruma might have a better way to deal with it as she is a biokinetic, but she was also distraught by her husband's capture and she knew what his fate is going to be if he was not rescued soon.

You make good points here. If my husband or father had been taken, there are quite drastic lengths I would go to ensure I get them back. Carly and Dauma couldn't go to the police, and had to take matters into their own hands.

[gilliansisley]

What they did wasn't fair. Vicki thought she was doing the right thing, and they, on the other hand were just being desperate, and desperation can cause one to go overboard.

I totally hated this book, admittedly, but in desperation to find a loved one we'd go to pretty extreme lengths of we were capable of possibly getting them back ourselves.

[gilliansisley]

Of course, it was not fair at all. She is mostly innocent if whatever he got to know about her is true. But in terms of Carly and Dauma, they really needed information about their father, so they did what they could. Sure it's quite unbelievable for Carly for torturing her, but the previous experience of her with an Iksha spy might have been replaying in her mind which led to her father's capture. Also, Daruma might have a better way to deal with it as she is a biokinetic, but she was also distraught by her husband's capture and she knew what his fate is going to be if he was not rescued soon.

I agree with you on this one... Obviously they were acting on raw emotions, but it did bother me when Dauma started in on her she said that she's just going to assume Vicki is lying no matter what she says. What's the point? At that point, it's just torture.

Yes, you make a fantastic point. Dauma went in hot and heavy, and went forward with a torturing mindset. That's messed up. There's no moral line.

[gilliansisley]

What they did wasn't fair. Vicki thought she was doing the right thing, and they, on the other hand were just being desperate, and desperation can cause one to go overboard.

I also thought it was crazy for Dauma to state that she's not going to believe anything she says... especially since Vicki didn't exactly hold back the truth and what she was doing!

Yeah, this is a psychological mind f*ck. Like, this is another human being. They're actively torturing her. She's a daughter, and has people who love her. And they had no compassion for that.

[gilliansisley]

I think this just represents another way this is very much a young adult book and not an adult book. The way Vicki is treated is very much a teenager fantasy for being able to deal with an evil peer, the mean girl. In an adult book, we would have had to deal with not just the action but the emotional reaction from making that choice. And it absolutely is a big deal.
And I think it will feel even more squicky over the rest of the series when Vicki develops Stockholm Syndrome and comes to see her captors as "right" and wants to help them against her father. (I haven't read the next book, this is just my suspicion of what will happen in her character arc.)
But it is obvious that we as a reader are never really meant to see Vicki as a whole person. We never get in her POV, no matter how many POV jumps we have. She is a plot device given a name and nothing more. And so, by that standard, we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

I gave the book a good review. I did enjoy it, but there were plenty of things that bothered me. This is actually one of the weakest points of the book.

Yeah, more disturbing content that just backs up the fact that this book does not appropriately suit a YA audience. There's so much pleasure being taken by the main characters behaving disturbingly, and that is just so damn dangerous to put in front of young people.

[gilliansisley]

I also thought it was crazy for Dauma to state that she's not going to believe anything she says... especially since Vicki didn't exactly hold back the truth and what she was doing!

That showed that Vicki's intentions were unbiased. Dauma saying that was kind of frustrating.

Just call a spade a spade... If Dauma and Carly want to torture someone, then just have that scene be that... not sure torture wearing an "interrogation" disguise.

True. And that's a huge theme in this novel. Normalising really toxic or disturbing behaviour, as if it isn't a big deal, or by putting a different word on it completely changes the horrible nature of it.

[gilliansisley]

I think what Dauma, Carly, and Adam did to Vikki was definitely over the top. To kidnap her and question her was one thing, but I agree that she was only doing what her father instructed her to do. She was not a physical threat to them personally, she was just to find out who had special powers and report it to her father.

Exactly! Both parties think that they are doing what is right, and who knows, the Descendants may have done terrible things to the Iksha as well! We just don't know both sides of the story.

Very true! Maybe the next book in the series will answer some of those questions!

I'm not about to find out. I'm not reading another word from this series. Couldn't pay me enough.

[Brenda Creech]

I think what Dauma, Carly, and Adam did to Vikki was definitely over the top. To kidnap her and question her was one thing, but I agree that she was only doing what her father instructed her to do. She was not a physical threat to them personally, she was just to find out who had special powers and report it to her father.

Everything they did was over the top! This book was a constant pattern of people behaving toxically, and it just apparently being okay because they're the main characters? Just chilling

Exactly! I can't help but wonder what they will be up to in the next book!

[Nym182]

I guess that the moment Carly was only thinking about her Father at the time. But I agree that what happened with Vikki was a lot. She was brainwashed and Carly was angry.

And that is a valid point... Maybe Carly has been a bit brainwashed herself?

Nah I don't think Carl was brainwashed. Unless there is a good reason for it.

Hmmmm maybe not "brainwashed" maybe more "conditioned" by her parents? Not with any evil intent, but isn't that kinda common for warring families to do? Gotta teach the new generations who are evil and then it really comes to perspective. Like, if we saw things from Vicki's POV, the Descendants would be painted the same way the Iksha is to Carly. One of the negatives of seeing things from one side's POV is only getting one side of the story.