I Beg to Differ.

Use this forum to discuss the May 2020 Book of the month, "Grace Revealed: Finding God's Strength in Any Crisis" by Frederick J. Sievert.
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Ariely 20
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Re: I Beg to Differ.

Post by Ariely 20 »

It's a combination of both. We should not try to limit God. He sees us as individuals and also in the person of Jesus.
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wendilou49
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Post by wendilou49 »

God most definitely sees us as individuals, but when we have become saved by the blood of Jesus, that blood covers all our imperfections and He no longer sees them. We may dwell on our imperfections and wish to be more holy and like Jesus but God already sees us perfect. When we sin again, He forgives us without questions and continues to see us as covered by the blood. I don't understand that completely, only that once I'm saved I'm always saved and God puts all my sins in "the deep blue sea", as the children's song goes. He's a mysterious and wonderful God!!!
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Post by Maconstewart »

I think it's a blending of the two. God gave us free will to be the individual we want to be. Once we acceot Christ and become a member of that family our sins, past, present, and future are washed clean. Paid for by the blood of Jesus. I believe that when God looks at us, he is aware of, and can see, all of our sins and flaws; however, as a member of his family, he ignores them and sees that Jesus covered them. Much like we as parents are aware that our children are not perfect...they make mistakes and bad decisions, but we love them anyway, unconditionally.
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Post by Becccccca+98 »

I think that in this quote when it says that God sees Jesus when we are in Christ. I guess maybe it could be a reference that when we accept Christ into our lives, God sees us the same way he sees Jesus, as his children.
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Post by Reubeney »

I think God cares for everyone as an individual and once you accept to believe in Jesus your imperfections and sins are cleansed through faith.
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Post by edztan15 »

It's interesting to see people of similar faith have different takes on how God sees us. Though I think we could all agree that the central theme for all various interpretations are love and compassion.
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Post by UzmaKhan »

Though it seems like an interesting read, I will probably skip the book because of the religious element. Thanks for the detailed review.
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Post by SangeethaNarayan »

I think God must see us as individuals. Why else would he give us free will? We get to choose when and how we access me. We get to choose how to or not to behave in a certain situation.we get to choose when we need his help and when we can do it by ourselves. He sees us ... imperfection and all ...but knows that we are more than all our imperfections put together.
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Post by Ellylion »

Nerea wrote: 01 May 2020, 01:18
Does God only “see perfection in Jesus,” or is He also interested in us as individuals?
I think God also sees us with all our imperfections, which is important for us to improve :)
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Chigozie Anuli Mbadugha
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Post by Chigozie Anuli Mbadugha »

God does know our faults and sins because He is the all-knowing God but then He is also a righteous judge and when an offence has been paid ŕor in full... (by the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus), he bears that in mind when he evaluates us. I think that is what the author meant... :tiphat:
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Post by sirbobthewise »

These are only my own thoughts, of course, but I believe it is both. He only sees Jesus when He looks at us (looks at our sin) but he cares about us as individuals. I think what the author is ultimately trying to bring out is what that chapter is about, "Jesus paid it all." In other words, when God looks at us Christians (who believe in Christ and announce Jesus as our Savior) in our sin (because we will always be sinners, even when we cling to Christ), He no longer sees the sin inside of us as requiring punishment and death. Jesus, instead, paid the price for our sin (because only He could do such a thing) so that we could be reconciled with God.

When we believe in Christ, even though we continue to sin (because we are not perfect), we are reconciled with God (we no longer have to fear his punishment), because we are clothed in Jesus. Thus, when God sees our sin, He sees Jesus. I believe Rick Warren (who the author quotes in that passage) is speaking on the matter of sin and reconciliation, not God's intention toward us as His children.

So, in regard to our sin, God sees Jesus and does not require punishment or payment (because Jesus paid for it). On the other side, God is our creator, our Father, and therefore, cares about us deeply as individuals. He cares about our sanctification. But we are even able to be sanctified and grown in a unique, beautiful, and individually-crafted way because Jesus paid for our reconciliation first. We needed to be reconciled first so that we could even be able to HAVE a relationship with God, which will thus allow our sanctification process (through the Holy Spirit). I don't believe it's an "either/or" answer. It's both.

Thanks for the great question!
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Post by Maria Esposito »

I think some interpretation and context is needed to relate to this statement. I do agree that God sees Jesus when looking at us, because He made us in His image. I also believe that in order to love us like He loves Jesus, He must overlook all the mess and the scars we perpetuate and receive in our lives. That does not mean He does not see them, or He discards them. It just means that God's love is unconditional and looks beyond our human failures.
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Post by Verna Coy »

You're absolutely right. God sees us as individuals. Each of us unique in our own way. He doesn't just see Jesus as though we were hiding behind him in some way, but he sees Jesus in us, and he sees our character and personality, and loves us for our individuality.
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Post by Nonso Samuelson »

Nerea wrote: 01 May 2020, 01:18 I like how the author defines Grace (undeserved kindness) and reveals how it affects us. But I beg to differ a little bit with the author’s sentiments in location 343, paragraph 2 where the author talks about how God views us as individuals. He says;

“To be in Christ means that when God looks at you, He doesn’t see all your sins, failures, and rough spots. When you are in Christ, God just sees Jesus. You may see the scars, the mess, and the problems, but God sees perfection in Jesus.”

I don’t know if I’m the one who got it wrong. Feel free to correct me. My issue comes in where the author says, God does not see our effects of imperfection, but He sees perfection in Jesus. I believe God is aware of all our sinful inclinations, and He wants us to change and become useful vessels in His service. To achieve that, He has used His word and His Holy Spirit to help us correct our weaknesses so that we can attain perfection/holiness. He provides comfort whenever we feel low, through the Bible, and give us the strength that will help us endure all our “rough spots.” For God to draw us closer to Christ, He chooses to look at the good in us despite our bad tendencies, failures, and trials. (Ref; Genesis 6:5, Psalms 51:5, Isaiah 48:17,18, 1 peter 1:14-16, 2 Corinthians 1:3,4, John 6:44, Psalms 103:12-14).

Does God only “see perfection in Jesus,” or is He also interested in us as individuals?
I want to believe that I get the author's sentiments but I quite agree with you. As Christians, we often make this mistake of misrepresenting God, albeit with a sincere heart to show his unconditional love.

I do not agree that God only sees Jesus when he looks at us. God is NOT blind. He sees everything, including us as individuals. We each have a personality, a spirit, character, dreams, goals, likes, dislikes, wants, needs, successes, failures, sin, and everything else, and God is interested in ALL of it. He saw our frailty and sent His son to kickstart the work of redemption.

So does God only see Jesus or is He interested in us as individuals? Yes, he is ABSOLUTELY interested in us and everything that concerns us. That was the whole point of sending Jesus. These are my two cents.
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Post by Believeinbooks04 »

Nujudee wrote: 14 May 2020, 18:00 I think God sees us as mere individuals because we still wear the mortal body. Thus making us imperfect and Unworthy.
It is his Grace that enables us stand in his presence.
This is my thoughts exactly! We are all people who aren't worthy of his grace but because of Jesus' sacrifice for us, we get grace indeed. ❤️
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