How do your revise your own writing?

[moderntimes]

When I ask how you revise your own writing, I'm asking about the various techniques or methods you use to ensure that your end result is the best it can be. This means not only totally free from ALL mechanical errors (typos, misspelling, etc) and bad grammar, but also stylistically the best you can create, such as varying sentence structure, clear narrative, realistic dialogue and so on.

As an example, here's how I do it... If I'm writing something short, such as an article, review, essay, or short story, there's no trick to it. I just go back through the text with a fine tooth comb and ferret out any problems. I read and re-read and re-re-read until I'm satisfied that the piece is as perfect as I'm capable of making it.

Now for longer writing, a slightly different approach... I'm mostly engaged nowadays in writing a series of modern American private detective novels. The first two are sold and published ("Blood Spiral" and "Blood Storm", available via Amazon in Kindle or trade paperback) and I'm past halfway on the third novel, "Blood Vengeance," and should finish the book mid-year.

Anyway, I do it this way... I write, say, Chapter 35 and maybe Chapter 36 fairly quickly. Being a mystery thriller, the chapters are generally shorter than a "literary" mainstream novel. For me, chapters are about 4-6 pages of MS-Word manuscript, as each chapter represents a specific scene or event in the brisk story line. Were I writing a more mainstream novel with lots of contemplation and reflection, the chapters would be longer. Anyway...

As I write, I finish a particular story arc that may last 3-4 chapters. If you're a novelist, you know that there's one overriding main story arc that encompasses the whole book, and then there are shorter arcs that describe maybe the major portions of the novel, such as the first fourth of the book, second fourth, and so on. And finally, shorter arcs still that stretch across 3 or 4 chapters. One short arc may be all exposition, another arc action, and so on.

What I do is write chapters for the new arc, and as I initially write, I don't worry about composition or structure but instead I'm just focused on getting the story out of my fevered brain and onto the "page" (or MS-Word document). I write fast and buzz ahead and tell that singular arc of the story. This may be Chapters 35 through 37.

Next I take a break, then go back to the beginning of this new arc of chapters and read through, fixing typos and obvious errors, and tweaking the text here and there. Then I go back again and revise the "flavor" of the text, adjusting verbs and adjectives, massaging dialogue for reality and clarity.

And then I revise a third and maybe fourth time -- there's no set number of times I tweak a manuscript -- I just do it till I feel it's good.

But here's the technique that I also use: After the "arc" of these recently created chapters is in pretty good shape, I then return to the earlier arc and start again, reading and revising, and see how smoothly the two arcs transition to one another. If need be, I may go back to yet an earlier arc to ensure there is coherence and that word choice and dialogue styles are consistent but not repetitive.

In this way I do my best to ensure that the whole novel is uniform in theme. I work an arc as a group and go back and forth to mostly the prior arc to fix any inconsistencies.

So I write by grouping my arc-related chapters together and then working to unify the whole. As I write new chapters, I'm not only revising these newest chapters, but also prior chapters. I "drag along" these prior chapters but normally don't go way way back to very early chapters. These very early chapters have already undergone my back and forth revision process before now, when I'd first written them.

And of course, occasionally I take a big break and re-read the whole thing over again from the very beginning and fix things I'd overlooked.

Therefore there's no "first draft" and "second draft" and "final draft" at all. The whole book is in flux throughout.

And for the technical aspects, I will often create documents such as "ch 35a.doc" and "ch 35b.doc" that indicate a major change, where I saved the "a" version before proceeding to make big changes for the "b" version of that chapter. Later if I wish, I can go back to all the various versions and cherrypick for the best, and save that. So I really never delete anything in the event I made a mistake or radically changed my mind, and so I've got all prior versions neatly saved on disc. And yeah, I do regular backups to thumb drive and also burn a DVD.

How about you? Do you have any special revision and rewrite techniques?

[ALRyder]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who does stuff like this. While it is organized in your mind, many may see it as complete madness. Being a writer may compute as madness to most anyway I suppose.

I'm curious, after you do all of this, do you put it through a critique group? I'm part of an online critique group (well, a couple actually, but I only ever really use one), and I find that not only receiving critiques, but critiquing other authors works really helps my writing along. I don't know that I would notice as many things in my own writing if I hadn't seen it in someone else's first.

[moderntimes]

You asked about a critique group. Well, selling the novels is the critique that I use. And of course landing an agent who will find placement for my books.

Having a paying market in the real world is how I judge whether my stuff is acceptable.

I do of course run certain segments of my book past my girlfriend and others to find out whether the "feel" I am trying to convey is working. As for support groups, none. I've ironclad about typos and good grammar and few people whom I know are so meticulous.

I've found that my editors and publishers provide adequate feedback, actually.

[Intellijock]

I try to hand write as much as possible, then type it. Another technique is to go ahead and type whatever it is and then, each time I sit down to write, re-read whatever it is in its entirety.

[moderntimes]

I try to hand write as much as possible, then type it. Another technique is to go ahead and type whatever it is and then, each time I sit down to write, re-read whatever it is in its entirety.

Why do you hand-write before typing it up? Isn't that an extra step? Why not just type first?

As for re-reading in entirety, for an essay or short story, that's fine. But for a novel, nope. What is your review technique for longer works?

[mina1015]

I love writing but a lot of the time dread revisions because I am constantly wanting to go to the next idea and write more. My process is that I hand write almost everything first. All the NaNoWriMo novels I have written are on notebook paper. This might seem like an extra step to most people but for me typing it all up after it is written allows for me to fix mistakes or add/take away more because it was already written down. This is mainly a context edit. I make sure characters act like they should, if I had an idea about something that happened in the character's past while writing chapter 17, during my typing I can add a bit more context in say chapter 15.

Most of what I write follows a pattern of story arcs as you mentioned. Once I have chapters typed up I print them out in order to fix general typos and errors not picked up by the computer, but I print out these smaller story arcs out of order to make sure they make sense by themselves but also to spice things up a bit because having read over my work more than four times in order I get complacent and just read in terms of memory (if that makes sense). This makes reading the whole works over again a little more bearable.

Once I finish a novel I then have someone else read it in order to test it out. As a fantasy writer I sometimes know something about the world I have created but forget to explain it to the reader. Those little details get sorted out.

Then I go back and read the whole thing all over again like a few days later. Of course by then I am finished and realize what I have created is total crap and start on a new novel idea after that.

I also wanted to say that it's pretty cool that you are a published author. I am working my way there. As I said I have written several novels but being as I wrote the previous 5 in high school they aren't all that great. Don't get me wrong I am not in anyway putting myself down. I just realize that my writing then is not as good as it is now after two years of college English and creative writing classes. And like I said before I am constantly wanting to move on to the next idea.
I am also interested to see what processes other people use.

[gali]

I just write reviews (and it is enough for me). After writing the first draft, I go over it and revise it. Then I reread it several times and edit it till I am satisfied with the result.

[db3hr]

I try to hand write as much as possible, then type it. Another technique is to go ahead and type whatever it is and then, each time I sit down to write, re-read whatever it is in its entirety.

Why do you hand-write before typing it up? Isn't that an extra step? Why not just type first?

As for re-reading in entirety, for an essay or short story, that's fine. But for a novel, nope. What is your review technique for longer works?

I always hand write everything first, especially novels. And as far as re-reading, sometimes when I need to situate myself in a chapter I'll re-read its outline (I do a lot of those) or at least the end of the chapter before it (and sometimes review my ideas for the chapter after it, just to help me pace myself) before writing. More often, though, I find it valuable to just write the new chapter off the top of my head and integrate it more clearly into the chapters before and after it while I'm editing. It makes that chapter feel more authentic, if you know what I mean.

Going back to the "extra step" of writing by hand first, though: for some reason it's a lot easier (and more enjoyable!) for me to compose on a blank page than a blank screen. It also forces me to slow down a bit. Additionally, I don't really write in order. I kind of work backward. I sketch up different parts as I think of them (sometimes just outlines, and then expand them into the actual prose while typing), and having physical pages in my hand that I've scribbled all over it and played around with makes it easier for me to come up with ideas. It also makes me feel less guilty about changing things if I edit in the stages between written pages and a typed manuscript than if I were to delete or switch around huge chunks I've already typed up (all writers know how strongly we hold on to our original ideas, even if they evolve afterward--even if they should--sometimes it's difficult to feel like you're not breaking some promise to yourself when you change them).

The two best pieces of advice I've EVER been given about revising (from successful published authors!) are:

1) Read it out loud. Even better--have someone ELSE read it out loud. It's so easy to get stuck in your own head or get too close to the writing to realize what you're missing (and/or have too much of) if you've been re-reading it to yourself forever. It's even better if you hear it in someone else's voice. Someone who won't correct/interject as they're reading along, of course. I'm lucky enough to live with a Theatre Education Major. I would've paid for her acting training myself if I'd known how much it would help my dialogue.

2) Cut it up. Seriously. Print everything out, and literally cut the paper up into pieces (a paragraph at a time, a scene at a time, whatever feels right). Sometimes you'll realize that passages you've already divided up into smaller sections would fit better if you re-order them. Other times (and this is when the method really proves itself) you'll discover places you should insert chapter/page breaks that you do not already have. If nothing else, literally breaking everything down elementally helps you see/understand your own plot, maybe even find places to add things. It achieves the same effect as having it read out loud; divorcing you from your own perspective and helping you, as its creator, see it as objectively as you can.

My personal advice is to hand write the page numbers that each section was initially on the pages after you cut them up, if they're not there already (even though you have a copy saved on your computer) on each page, and then re-number them (maybe in a different color, elsewhere on the page) according to their new order and staple them together that way. It kind of looks like some sort of kindergarten arts and crafts project. Then (I guess I'm really patient with my writing, haha. Not with much else), either go to your computer and just use copy+paste to re-order what you originally, OR (this is where the patience comes in) start typing in a NEW document in the NEW order; when you do this, it'll be easier to realize where to add new scenes, and actually start writing them. You'll already be right there!

I might be wording this poorly because it's a lot easier to just show someone how to do it. I mean, I only know because a college Nonfiction professor of mine literally threw a bunch of scissors on the table one day and made us dismember our precious precious first drafts. It was one of the most productive workshop experiences I've ever had.

Gah. Still don't feel like I'm being clear. I'll attempt an example.

Let's say the first page and a half of your manuscript (pages 1-1.5) should really come after the cool flashback section that follows it in your first draft (pages 1.5-2.5), but the last section of your opening (2.5-3) still seems like it's right where it belongs, even after you've gotten someone to read it aloud for you at least once and threatened it with scissors while contemplating its fate. You'd cut the manuscript up at the places between those sections--so, cut at 1.5 and 2.5 but leave page 3 alone--and then re-order, re-number, and re-staple them. The first page of your new version, once re-stapled, would be 1.5-2.5 ("page one"), followed by 1-1.5 ("page two"), followed by 2.5-3 ("page three"). Then cut+paste or re-type as you wish.

Point is: handwriting/revising off of the computer is really cool and valuable and people definitely still do it!

Ancillary point: apparently I like parenthetical statements a lot

[Alexandra Bayer]

I just read it over then get a couple of other people to do so as well.

[moderntimes]

Thanks to all, especially mina and db.

I used to handwrite but working for newspaper "cured" me of that. And my "day job" for years involved high tech computers and programming (I wrote programs for designing steel & concrete structures, and later, deepwater offshore rigs) so everything was highly documented on the computer.

I've heard of the "cutting up" technique of writing -- by the way, Wm Burroughs did this while writing "Naked Lunch" -- and it's a way of helping stimulate your creativity.

I do the same but in my mind, not with actual paper. I eschew manuscripts now and everything -- everything -- goes into the laptop.

I once did rely on manuscript and printing out pages, but no more. It took some effort but I now write straight to the MS-Word vacuum that sucks up anything. The scientist in me (degree in chemistry, minor in math) pushes me to keep precise records of everything, so I have a careful filing system but it's all on the laptop.

Right now, for example, I'm coming to final stages of my 3rd novel in my series of modern American private detective stories. I've got an icon on my "desktop" labeled "to do" and it's simply a Word doc that contains quick-thought notes. Per the last couple days, I've got my PI and his friends attending a Dave Alvin concert (A GREAT modern blues-oriented CW guitarist, by the way) so I quickly jotted down the play list that included some of Alvin's best, "Harlan County Line" or "Black Rose of Texas" so I could later use these titles. And my protagonist had a new lady in his life, a trauma surgeon from New Zealand. So I wrote her full bio, where she went to college and med school, all of it. And she owns a small sleek sailboat so I researched boats and "assigned" her a "Beneteau First 20" -- I try to include precise and realistic details in my story, much as you, writing fantasy, need to ensure that details match.

Anyway, all those side notes and reminders go into the "to do" file so I can refer to them later.

As far as revisions go, I am always revising earlier chapters, adding or tweaking something here and there to effect a better story line, make it smoother, some sort of change for the better.

As far as typos or mechanical errors go, naturally I carefully check my writing. I never use the spellcheck or other auto featured in MS-Word. All are turned off. The best spellchecker is between your ears.

I might offer that the reliance upon physically cutting and pasting paragraphs is something that you've in fact "outgrown" and that you actually know how to create good stories without resorting to collegiate "tricks" and can do this in your mind, as you write.

Same for manuscript, same for printing out in order to proofread. I know it's difficult at first but you'll never look back if you can teach yourself to do all this on the computer. You'll then be unencumbered. At least that's my opinion, worth exactly 3 cents (it was 2 cents but there's a profit to be made, ha ha).

Let me also ask, Mina, you say it's cool that I'm published but hey, I write novels (and other things) expressly TO be published. Getting published (not self-published) should be the goal. Have you pursued this? I'd highly recommend this because it's signing that contract (and cashing that check!) that puts the stamp of approval on your hard work.

Don't sell yourself short. Don't say "I only wrote when I was in school" or "I just wrote to feel good" but go beyond this and work dutifully toward a real world publication (maybe via e-book, but publishing regardless.

-- 20 May 2014, 13:17 --

Thanks to all, especially mina and db.

I used to handwrite but working for newspaper "cured" me of that. And my "day job" for years involved high tech computers and programming (I wrote programs for designing steel & concrete structures, and later, deepwater offshore rigs) so everything was highly documented on the computer.

I've heard of the "cutting up" technique of writing -- by the way, Wm Burroughs did this while writing "Naked Lunch" -- and it's a way of helping stimulate your creativity.

I do the same but in my mind, not with actual paper. I eschew manuscripts now and everything -- everything -- goes into the laptop.

I once did rely on manuscript and printing out pages, but no more. It took some effort but I now write straight to the MS-Word vacuum that sucks up anything. The scientist in me (degree in chemistry, minor in math) pushes me to keep precise records of everything, so I have a careful filing system but it's all on the laptop.

Right now, for example, I'm coming to final stages of my 3rd novel in my series of modern American private detective stories. I've got an icon on my "desktop" labeled "to do" and it's simply a Word doc that contains quick-thought notes. Per the last couple days, I've got my PI and his friends attending a Dave Alvin concert (A GREAT modern blues-oriented CW guitarist, by the way) so I quickly jotted down the play list that included some of Alvin's best, "Harlan County Line" or "Black Rose of Texas" so I could later use these titles. And my protagonist had a new lady in his life, a trauma surgeon from New Zealand. So I wrote her full bio, where she went to college and med school, all of it. And she owns a small sleek sailboat so I researched boats and "assigned" her a "Beneteau First 20" -- I try to include precise and realistic details in my story, much as you, writing fantasy, need to ensure that details match.

Anyway, all those side notes and reminders go into the "to do" file so I can refer to them later.

As far as revisions go, I am always revising earlier chapters, adding or tweaking something here and there to effect a better story line, make it smoother, some sort of change for the better.

As far as typos or mechanical errors go, naturally I carefully check my writing. I never use the spellcheck or other auto featured in MS-Word. All are turned off. The best spellchecker is between your ears.

I might offer that the reliance upon physically cutting and pasting paragraphs is something that you've in fact "outgrown" and that you actually know how to create good stories without resorting to collegiate "tricks" and can do this in your mind, as you write.

Same for manuscript, same for printing out in order to proofread. I know it's difficult at first but you'll never look back if you can teach yourself to do all this on the computer. You'll then be unencumbered. At least that's my opinion, worth exactly 3 cents (it was 2 cents but there's a profit to be made, ha ha).

Let me also ask, Mina, you say it's cool that I'm published but hey, I write novels (and other things) expressly TO be published. Getting published (not self-published) should be the goal. Have you pursued this? I'd highly recommend this because it's signing that contract (and cashing that check!) that puts the stamp of approval on your hard work.

Don't sell yourself short. Don't say "I only wrote when I was in school" or "I just wrote to feel good" but go beyond this and work dutifully toward a real world publication (maybe via e-book, but publishing regardless.

[laureng]

I reread and reread. Sometimes, I find that reading the piece out loud is the best way to find mistakes. I also turn off any music I have playing (I always write with music), since I have found that to distracting. Going out for a walk helps too. It clears my mind and makes the piece fresh, instead of just going straight from the writing to the editing.

[moderntimes]

From the previous post, 5/20 I've made significant progress -- I finished my novel (60k plus words) and then went through an extensive review and edit process, and as you say, lareng, read and re-read till my eyes pop out. Then I read it some more, always tweaking and revising, finding the occasional typo, but more important, making slight alterations in syntax and word choice so that the narrative and dialogue are as smooth and elegant as possible.

It takes hours and hours of careful reading and editing until I've got the best that I'm capable of. I used to write with music in the background but since I'm a big classical buff, I find myself listening rather than concentrating on the book. And I eschew "background music" so nowadays it's quiet when I write. My girlfriend reads or watches TV or other things and we let each other have our "quiet" time.

I've also been busy sending agent queries. My last 2 novels were published (non-vanity) but I wasn't too keen on the outcome, so I'm taking the conventional path this time, seeking AAR agents.

And right now, after taking a break to surf the net and post some messages here and there, I'll dive back into the text again, tweaking. Whew!

[lynniemac1]

I don't write a lot of fiction. I must walk away from my writing for a while, go back and read it and then read it again. It helps me to spot errors, view with a fresh perspective, and come up with new ideas.

[moderntimes]

What sort of nonfiction do you write, lynnie? Just curious. Myself, I've written articles & essays, plus numerous book and movie reviews. And back in the stone age I wrote for a newspaper.

I don't think it matters, however, fiction or nonfiction, as the revision process is essentially the same. But for book-length material, the revision process must be piecemeal, just because you can't re-read an entire book each time you perform some editing.

I just completed a full re-read & edit of my new novel, however. I changed the chapter structure in a couple places, splitting two long chapters into 4 shorter ones, and moving a sequence from the beginning of a chapter back to the end of the previous chapter. I think this helped the rhythm and flow of the novel.

And I made a few tweaks along the way, changing a word here or there. And found yet one more error, where I'd written "compliment" when it should have been "complement" -- one of my eternal weak spots in my otherwise pretty good vocabulary and English comprehension. That, and occasionally not knowing whether to use "who" vs "whom."

[TrishaAnn92]

I do lots of reading and rereading along with editing and rewriting when I write and I break it up over time so I don't get overwhelmed.