Questions about conventional publishing? I might help.

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 25 Aug 2015, 22:27

If you're considering exploring "conventional" publishing -- that is, not self-publishing or subsidy ("vanity") publishing, where you pay all or a part of the fees -- but instead finding a regular publisher who pays you and who picks up all the costs, I'd be happy to answer questions and hopefully persuade you to ignore the many rumors about "evil publishers dominating the author" and maybe give you a glimpse into the truth.

I'm not a "known" author. Yes I've managed to sell the occasional article or essay or book/movie review, but my "legit" publishing history is minimal. Yet I recently submitted my new mystery novel (a modern American private detective story, 3rd in the series) to a conventional, but small, publisher. The publisher not only accepted this new book but also has contracted to publish the first two novels too. They will soon be releasing all 3 novels in both trade paperback and e-book formats. The contract I signed is a conventional one, standard royalties and so on, and no, I don't pay one red cent toward the publication.

Now my very lucky but good experience fmade me think that maybe I could offer advice to those who are toying with the submission of their own book to a conventional, royalty-paying publisher.

Now I won't provide the title of my books or the publisher's name because I don't want to be thought of as hawking my own writing. Anyone interested in learning about my private detective novels can PM me. And of course I can't reveal the contract (that's confidential) except in very general terms.

But otherwise I can tell you the procedure I went through, my ups and downs, very real and very ordinary for a newbie writer, share my experiences and help dispel some of the rumors about conventional publishing. So maybe I can provide some good info.

But hey, my feeling is this -- if I can sell my books, being totally unknown, then maybe so can you. It won't hurt to try.

zeldas_lullaby · Post by **zeldas_lullaby** » 30 Aug 2015, 15:00

I'd love an update, ModernTimes. Are your books out yet??

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 30 Aug 2015, 17:07

No, not yet -- check my website for the latest news. I can't post specifics on the availability here, as you know.

I've yet to receive any other replies to my thread, as you can see. I really don't know why more new writers don't just go ahead and try to get conventional publication first, and then if no luck, they can self-publish. Writers have to push a bit, as I see it.

Some newbie writers see "writing" as so unique that it's not a "job" like house painting or being a lab tech or accountant or whatever. Yes, it's special in many ways but besides the creative process, the rest of it is marketing, which is the "real world" -- an author's query is just like a resume for a job in other fields. My reason for this thread is to help encourage newbie writers to at least TRY to get their stuff conventionally sold. Hey, it can't hurt to try. Then you go to self-publishing or subsidy publishing if that route doesn't work.

I really don't understand the reticence to some new writers just giving it a try. The process of doing so, even if unsuccessful, allows the writer to better organize the "product" and take a different look at the process, which helps the overall creative procedure, as I see it.

zeldas_lullaby · Post by **zeldas_lullaby** » 30 Aug 2015, 17:17

OK, I'll check your web site or email you!

I don't know either why there seems to be so much reticence... You make a lot of good points about the benefits of "conventional" publishing. And you're probably right that if you can do it, then so can anyone else who puts forth a solid effort. Marketing does indeed bite. As a self-published author, I can attest to that.

On the other hand, I have had many bad experiences with agents, and it's turned me off of the process of submissions. Agents are hostile. They are incredibly demanding as per their submission guidelines to the point that they may as well be threatening to steal your first-born child if you don't put QUERY in the heading of your email. And, they don't accept paper submissions. Instead of just saying, "Please email us with your queries," they all add, "If you snail-mail us, your query will be prompty recycled." (How freakin' politically correct!) I find that added meanness unnecessary and off-putting. I mean, I already gathered that they want email! I actually had a list of agents I wanted to submit to--over a year ago, it was--and I crossed most of them off the list for reasons such as that. Also, many of them start blogs in which they whine about bad submissions they received--"Oh, this person didn't follow our guidelines." Or, "Oh, this person opened their submission by saying, 'Yo, Hank, howzit?'" etc. Obviously, I don't want to do business with people like that, who spew hostility all over the place. And it seems to be most of them.

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 30 Aug 2015, 18:23

I totally understand that there are abrasive agencies and some publishers too. Those I frankly skip over. But there are also plenty of agents and publishers who simply are businesslike and don't treat the submitter rudely. This is like any business -- some are jerks and they are to be avoided.

I've had to tailor my submissions carefully per requirements but with a modern computer, it's pretty easy. I've got a big file full of query listings with specifically tailored files saved. I think that the few places you mention are usually not worth caring about anyway.

Hey, I've been rejected by the best publishers there are! ha ha

But most are just polite and send their TBNTs (thanks but no thanks) and it's just something we writers have to accept -- rejection is part of the biz.

I can also say that I've received some very kindhearted rejections. And one in particular, my submission was good enough that it passed up through 2 levels before the editor in chief said TBNT but she also told me why -- very rarely a writer will get a "nice" rejection and that's something valuable, because the "rejector" will then tell you why, not just "this is not for us" -- the editor said that I had way too much backstory and that the book lagged and lost its spark. I looked at where she pointed, and she was perfectly right!

So I rewrote the sections and found a way to make my book lots better, due to that single suggestion. Which of course resulted in not only my placing that one book, but all three.

Yeah, I got lucky and I spent weeks submitting and submitting forever, it seemed. But that's how it needs to be done.

Let's face it -- self publishing is fine if it's done in a very professional manner, not the sloppy way some very unwise amateurs do. I've got zero problems with self publishing.

But how much better would it be if a new author gets professionally published by a real, legit house? They do all the editing, cover art, layout, proofreading, publicity, and THEY PAY YOU! Now my new contract is just fine -- fair and legit and very clean. How much fun is it to sign a professional contract? It's great!

All a new writer has to do is some careful examination of the various publishers --- the site "preditors and editors" is great for finding legit publishers and avoiding the bad ones -- there are other good "tell all" sites to help ferret out bad apples -- and then submit lots of queries and just wait and see. And if nobody picks up, well, then the new writer is just out some time and "expensive" emails. No biggie.

And in the interval, it gives the writer time to read the novel again and see if the book had be tweaked a bit, and the process of submitting puts the author into a "professional" mode, not a "hobbyist" mentality -- that professional mindset is critical, as I see it.

And if there are no takers then sure, go for the self publishing or subsidy publishing. But tell me how many self publishers see their books at the local bookstore? Seeing your book on the shelf is an amazing feeling, I can tell you all!

zeldas_lullaby · Post by **zeldas_lullaby** » 09 Sep 2015, 13:08

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! Hey, everyone, it's ModernTimes' birthday!!! YAY!!

Woo-hoo!!! Speech, speech. Do you have any exciting birthday plans, ModernTimes??

moderntimes · Post by **moderntimes** » 09 Sep 2015, 20:05

Girlfriend & I had a very exciting day! (ha ha)

We got the T-Bird gassed up, drove by the bank for some green, then went to our fave Brit pub for lunch and 2 beers each. Then we came home and promptly took a nap!